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According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts.  He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended.  This would be very big news (and contradict what he said in his Weekly Radio Address just a week or two ago).  And it would be extremely depressing.

Since this is such big news, I immediately looked for ANY sources other than Huffington Post discussing this shocking development.  I found NONE.  Not the New York Times.  Not CNN.  Not even Talking Points Memo.  Even a Google News search found ONE internet link on this topic---Huffington Post.  Hmm, real interesting.  The President makes a major decision on a key issue, and no one except Huffington Post even discusses it. There are two possible reasons for that:

  1.  Every other newspaper, news network or internet news source chooses to ignore it (which seems unlikely, especially in the internet area of 24-hour news and instant information) or
  1.  Other news sources view an informal chat with a presidential advisor as NOT being indicative of the Commander-in-Chief's decision.

I don't think I am revealing anything shocking when I say that Huffington Post has an agenda, to promote "progressivism" as they see it by making our President look BAD.  They have done it before, and they'll do it again.  Spreading rumors to anger his liberal base.  The sad thing is, we here at Daily Kos fall for it.  The giant headlines must scare us somehow!

I wish my fellow Kossacks would quit falling for this Huffington Post Crap!

Update:  I want to make it clear I am NOT advocating that Huffington Post hide away and not report about its interview with David Axelrod.  But when they take an informal, off the cuff interview with a presidential advisor and turn it into gigantic headlines claiming that Obama had reached some kind of decision and "folded" on tax cuts (when the actual interview says no such thing), Huffington Post is engaging in its own form of tabloid journalism, exaggerating what was actually said and turning it into the President's decision, when it is no such thing!

Thanks to all for the recommended diary.  I accidentally typed this on my wife's account.  So my wife gets a
recommended diary while she sleeps!

Originally posted to whamfan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:20 AM PST.

Poll

Is the Huffington Post Correct that President Obama has "Folded" on Tax Cuts?

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72%3337 votes

| 4592 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (182+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    Pat K California, Sylv, taylormattd, Bear, burrow owl, mndan, Emerson, dengre, Heimyankel, donna in evanston, cotterperson, Duncan Idaho, Creosote, Doctor Who, jeepdad, cfm, elveta, understandinglife, Glic, vmibran, Iberian, Cedwyn, wader, Embee, psnyder, shwing, pat bunny, leevank, sp0t, peterborocanuck, BlogDog, Sophie Amrain, KayCeSF, tomjones, xndem, TexMex, vcmvo2, lcs, Bluesee, Unit Zero, jiffypop, chimene, PBen, fla1sun, Pam from Calif, aaraujo, Overseas, rb608, johnrhoffman, begone, Audio Guy, Whimsical, gwilson, edwardssl, darthstar, mango, arlene, pengiep, anastasia p, Libby Shaw, soccergrandmom, MBNYC, Pilgrim X, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, frankzappatista, Statusquomustgo, Temmoku, GoldnI, Jaleh, lordcopper, Steve In DC, malharden, Singing Lizard, SeaTurtle, BasharH, A Person, kafkananda, GANJA, Dem in the heart of Texas, mayrose, flowerfarmer, dotster, Lawnguylander, wonderful world, royce, pamelabrown, bluesheep, mofembot, HamdenRice, a night owl, statsone, artmartin, bushondrugs, snackdoodle, Jeremy10036, seanwright, Carol in San Antonio, tr GW, docb, kat68, krllos, theuniversal, lookit, geebeebee, elziax, zizi, MKSinSA, fokos, Kiku, pruple, sherijr, reenactor, Livvy5, Tricky, jsfox, rosecar, danbury6112, gramofsam1, candysroom, citizen31, klompendanser, Walden Ponderer, VickiL, darkbloom, Gertrude, elginblt, NorthCacalakaGirlForBO, Ed G, Floande, ZedMont, toftme39, SuzyQ60, Rockpopple, gobears2000, Front Toward Enemy, jtown, Mz LadyPhoenix, Possiamo, BlueJessamine, AtomikNY, BlackQueen40, Mistral Wind, cyeko, WilliamBentley2, cama2008, grannysally, Cinnamon Rollover, BarackStarObama, smoothnmellow, Idgie Threadgoode, createpeace, MuskokaGord, Nucking Futs, epjmcginley, EsperanzaCambia, IDTT, Imhotepsings, debit, blue aardvark, Ubiquitous A, SoCalSal, SteelerGrrl, moonpal, Jerry056, Dom9000, Lambunao, CalliopeIrjaPearl, lightshine, Pinto Pony, dasheight, Liberal Granny, matrix, delmardougster, DMLjohn, a2nite, ANY THING TOO ADD, CR from ProPresObama, jan4insight, Sepia, readerwriter, MartyM, Frank33
    Hidden by:
    DelRPCV, joanneleon
    •  Oh thank God! (14+ / 0-)

      I was worried there for awhile.   It's good that you researched this.   While Huffington Post is more reliable than Drudge Report and less misleading than Breitbart,  it still isn't perfect.  And I highly doubt that they would be the ONLY one to know about something as big as this.  

      (-6.25, -4.36) Just another socialist lesbian undermining the sanctity of marriage by breathing

      by Gertrude on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:54:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The story will be widely (20+ / 0-)

        picked up today -- which doesn't make it any more or less true -- because the veracity of a story can't be gauged by how many news outlets report on it. The premise of the diary is silly.

        As in the contention that Axelrod's interview should be dismissed as an "informal chat."

        O's top political advisor doesn't give "informal chats."

        We've got from dismissing stories based on anonymous stories (legitimate) to dismissing stories based on on-the-record statements from one of the president's top advisors.

        •  It won't be picked up widely (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MKSinSA, Imhotepsings

          because it's not saying anything new.

          Axelrod emails:

          There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

          And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

          The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence.

          Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

          by tomjones on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:43:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Adding, of course (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            twigg, MKSinSA, Imhotepsings

            that you can refuse to believe Axelrod's "clarification," but why would you believe one Axelrod over another?

            Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

            by tomjones on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:45:02 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  "we can't afford" means nothing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rudy23

            "The president will veto any bill that includes a permanent extension of tax cuts for the rich" is what they should be saying.

            Got a quote from any WH mouthpiece saying that?

            "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

            by catnip on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:06:43 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, the President doesn't need the veto pen. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tomjones, Imhotepsings

              Not until the next Congress is seated.  Whatever the deal is going to be, it's gonna get done in the lame duck session or everyone's taxes will go up January 1st.  You guys need to make this distinction.

              "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

              by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:11:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "You guys"? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                rivercard

                I'm in a gang now? Who knew?

                Let me rephrase then: "Read my lips*: no tax cut extension for the wealthy."

                * (Of course, in the spirit of the man who actually used that phrase, that promise is sure to be broken.)

                The point is this: announce a definitive position. None of this compromise bullshit. If it's a no-brainer, why is it even up for discussion? (Except that we know that Obama still thinks he's dealing with people who are actually interested in negotiating in a way that advances humanity instead of dragging it back to the Stone Age.)

                "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

                by catnip on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:17:57 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And you are taking this personally.... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Imhotepsings

                  because?

                  And are you George Bush now?  Ya think that phrase worked for him?  Ur... no.  It didn't.  

                  And it won't work for you.

                  Obama DID announce a definitive position.  He said it was up for discussion.  That's his position -- like it or not.

                  He also said catnip that he is not in favor of extending tax cuts for the wealthy.  He said that the GOP needs to come and explain themselves to him about how exactly would a tax cut for the wealthy would be paid for because the government would have to borrow 700 billion dollars to support it.  He also said that he supported the wealthy tax rate to return to Clinton levels.

                  Lastly he stated that he wanted to see if an agreement could be achieved that would get the GOP some of what they wanted and some of what he wanted.

                  Now I get that the GOP wants all of what they want all day long and maybe the President will give it to them.  But for now, this is his position.  I don't equate caving in as extending the cuts for all temporarily if the alternative is that taxes are raised for everybody.

                  But maybe that just needs to happen for some people here to see that dealing in absolutes never works.

                  "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

                  by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:10:50 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  a non-position (0+ / 0-)

                    Hate to break it to you but "up for discussion" is not a definitive position.

                    And this is exactly the problem:

                    Lastly he stated that he wanted to see if an agreement could be achieved that would get the GOP some of what they wanted and some of what he wanted.

                    His history in dealing with the Repubs says it all. He starts from a position of weakness (which is his choice) and they get what they want.

                    I don't equate caving in as extending the cuts for all temporarily if the alternative is that taxes are raised for everybody.

                    That should not be his default position because it makes no economic sense. What that says then is that he is willing to compromise for solely political reasons. And we all know just how well that's worked out so far. How do you justify his caving to something that will do absolutely nothing to help the economy?

                    "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

                    by catnip on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:28:44 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  He has said he opposes a permanent extension (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Imhotepsings

              of the tax cuts for the rich. Do you have any quote, anywhere, saying that they support it?

              Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

              by tomjones on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:18:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  actions speak louder than words (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jinx303, drnononono

                He also said he wanted a public option.

                He also said he wanted to close Gitmo.

                He also said he wanted to repeal DADT.

                Need I go on?

                And the key word there is "permament". There is absolutely no economic benefit to extending those cuts permanently OR temporarily (which he has not ruled out). None. An extension shouldn't even be up for discussion.

                "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

                by catnip on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:21:53 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, actions speak louder than words (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Saryko, Imhotepsings

                  Therefore, until he acts on temporarily or permanently extending the tax cuts, I expect you will take a wait and see approach, correct?

                  Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

                  by tomjones on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:29:03 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Certainly possible to see a pattern... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    drnononono

                    Which is why people are at the point now, and it's not going to get any better, where the automatic response to anything coming out of this White House is skepticism.

                    •  Skepticism is good (0+ / 0-)

                      and an appropriate response for anything a politician says or does.

                      But skepticism is not the same as all these screams of "BETRAYAL!!!" "CORPORATIST SELL OUT," etc. etc.

                      That's just knee jerk opposition, not too different from the tea baggers, imo.

                      Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

                      by tomjones on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 06:49:07 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  nope (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm all for opposing things while there's still time to actually take action to make sure shit doesn't happen.

                    "Wait and see"? Wait until he agrees to the extension for the rich folks and then see heads explode? Is that what you have in mind?

                    "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

                    by catnip on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:52:57 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Catnip... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Imhotepsings

                  Saying that and getting Congress to vote for it are vastly different things.  But the public option was not on the table.  Move on from that.  Yes he wanted to close Gitmo, but no state wanted to take on the people currently housed their until they move thru the criminal justice system.  Yes, he wanted to repeal DADT and he also wanted the courts to do it to add constitutional muster.

                  I'm sorry that a lot you guys don't seem to understand some things, but the President never had the kind of environment to push absolutes and he's not built that way anyway.

                  If you guys wanted a Democratic version of George Bush, you guys should have voted for another person.

                  "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

                  by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:34:27 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Research? (7+ / 0-)

        It's good that you researched this.

        Where in the above diary did the diarist contact H. Fineman or S. Stein or D. Axelrod or any I.D.'d or anonymous White House Staffer or Palin's twitter feed to rebut or confirm what is agreeably a sensationally screed across HuffPo front page...

        Zoom browsering across the Internet and finding no other sites reporting the interview does not constitute "Research"

        Arianna is a poser, a side switcher when it is convenient for her, and plays innocent and naive; see Matthews destroying her regarding recent sanity v fear rally nexus, but those two reporters and what they claim to have learned from Axelrod is not at all rebutted by the diary above-

        Intellect over emotion BEFORE you hit POST on a diary or comment please-

        Cripes-

        From the report at HuffPo with quotes from ninety minute discussion with advisor Axelrod-

        "We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod said during an unusually candid and reflective 90-minute interview in his office, steps away from the Oval Office. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

        "There are concerns," he added, that Congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future by passing temporary extensions for the wealthy time and time again. "But I don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point."

        Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan

        by RF on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:59:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All the research required is here: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rudy23, Onomastic, Imhotepsings

          "There are concerns," he [Axelrod] added, that Congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future by passing temporary extensions for the wealthy time and time again.

          So what they are musing about is getting the middle class cuts permanent and the rich cuts temporary. Since already some corporate democrats are balking about the non-extension of all tax cuts, this is probably whats needed to get enough votes in congress.

          And this is very much a half-full glass instead of a half-empty one, because the cuts for the rich by themselves are much much more difficult to pass, and populist sentiment can be roused against them very easily.

          He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

          by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:10:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Where does that say anything (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RF, blueoasis, newpioneer, MKSinSA

            about "getting the middle class cuts permanent?"  You're making up shit too.

            As far as I can see, neither the HuffPo article nor the other diary this diarist is attacking say that any tax cuts will be made permanent, let alone all of them.  That interpretation comes from this diarist's misreading of the story.

            What that story says is that the administration is willing to extend the tax cuts for the rich in order to extend the cuts for the middle class.  In addition, it quotes Axelrod discussing the fear of repeated future extensions (which to me implies that we're talking about a short-term extension to all tax cuts without decoupling the middle class from the rich - which would be a capitulation as far as I'm concerned.)  That's what we've been hearing for a while now, but it is news to have it explicitly confirmed on the record by a top advisor to the President.

            •  Best example comment post rebuttal- (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jrooth

              Of Intellect over Emotion-

              Distilled properly and well done-

              Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan

              by RF on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:43:26 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Reading only what pleases preconceived notions (0+ / 0-)

            and disregarding the rest, does not make for good research...

            Blockquoted from the Axelrod exclusive to HuffPo below, and now your feelings are going to be hurt dramatically, and for the rest of the day...

            I am sincerely in your camp on the policy we know should not waver, but there is no line in the sand Obama's admin will draw after all that money flowed to buy influence for my richest clients in this last election cycle, regardless of the physical location of the President today, or in days past-

            Please, remind me again how that

            populist sentiment

            has worked in the past...  Or I can do it for you...

            You will easily recall, populist sentiment was largely in favor of a public option in HCR as well, and that drama played itself out in our domesticated media and the blogosphere, and had the same logic you are touting in your comment post rebuttal...  

            That policy failure handed our opposition, and their bought and paid for media bullhorn, a loud and destructive mace that had many flipping for the party that is and has destroyed our political process; that is The Reality-

            Your unwavering allegiance is admirable, but the toll it must be taking on you, and those who rec BWD© type screed will eventually cause irreparable destruction to our cause, and each and every individuals credibility, here, and elsewhere it is witnessed  and displayed, so please folks, you are the ones who need to Just Stop

            Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan

            by RF on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:39:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Um. And WHERE in that quote does it... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Imhotepsings

          ...say that the president has made a decision on middle class tax cuts?

          Yeah. Exactly.

          Just stop.

          May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.

          by dasheight on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:11:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The CaveIn© (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Major Tom, jrooth, blueoasis

            "But I don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point."

            Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan

            by RF on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:01:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I am waiting to hear it from the President who is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Imhotepsings

            out of the country dealing with international matters at the G-20.  He will not return until Sunday. And as Rachel Maddow said last night, the news is all over the place speculating and guessing and reporting rumors. Meanwhile the President is out of the country and not here to confirm or deny. So the press has a field day.

        •  Just like these stories popping up everyday of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Imhotepsings

          Democrats considering switching their party affiliation.

          First Sen. B. Nelson who then had to issue a statement saying he was not switching parties.

          Then the next day it was Senator Elect Manchin who then had to issue a statement saying he never considered switching parties.

          Then it was Sen. Webb and on and on.  

          It seems like with the election over, the media is reporting gossip and speculation and twisting the words of every Democrat.

      •  Why does anyone go to Huff anymore? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Imhotepsings

        It's just a left-wing version of Drudge, and it's not even that far to the left.  Treat it like Drudge and Morning Joke, just don't go there.

        President Barack Obama; I helped make this happen!

        by PittsburghPete on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:36:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  This site is just as eager to leap to negative (29+ / 0-)

      conclusions.  Most people here don't know what to do with themselves if they're not constantly outraged

      I'm shocked to learn that 1 in 12 Americans do not know that the bird, is in fact, that word.

      by dansac on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:07:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Didn't CMatthews Call out Arianna Huffington (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, MKSinSA, moonpal
    •  Even if you take the HuffPost at face value... (6+ / 0-)

      ...nowhere does it say Obama was agreeing to permanently extend the high-income tax cuts, merely to a temporary re-extension of them.  Delaying the final decision is not the same as outright surrender.

    •  How do you explain this then? (13+ / 0-)

      http://content.usatoday.com/...

      Good morning from The Oval, and Happy Veteran's Day -- President Obama is in Seoul, South Korea, where today he said lawmakers in the United States should hold off on comments about his fiscal commission's proposals to slash the federal budget deficit through spending cuts, ending tax breaks, and a revamping of the Social Security system.

      "Before anybody starts shooting down proposals, I think we need to listen, we need to gather up all the facts," Obama told reporters.

      He added: "If people are, in fact, concerned about spending, debt, deficits and the future of our country, then they're going to need to be armed with the information about the kinds of choices that are going to be involved, and we can't just engage in political rhetoric."

      Nice framing of criticism against this middle class destroying plan as "political rhetoric."  

      •  Oh my god. There goes Social Security. You (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mattman, greeseyparrot, ohmyheck, cdkipp, beerh

        know when a politician starts with the words, "hold on", bend over you know you are about to take one for the team.

        "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

        by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:36:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good luck with the Obama worship. (6+ / 0-)

          It's unacceptable for Obama to criticize Nancy Pelosi and the progressive congressional Democrats as a way to curry favor with the center/right.  

          If you're going to make a statement on the subject, why not come out and say, "I'm against this plan because it hurts the middle class" and stop this in its tracks?  Why tell other progressives who are against it to sit down and shut up, essentially?

      •  On NPR this morning, Cat Food: "We need tax cuts!" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cheerio2
        That's right, this time we get a "pre-cave-in" cave! Right out of the gate, Obama's offering to GIVE deep social spending cuts and simultaneous tax CUTS in order to get Repubs to go along with balancing the budget?

        Seriously? That's his idea of negotiation? "We'll give your side 100% of  what you're  asking for + we'll throw in a pony and a milkshake! But that's just our starting offer, I mean, we're willing to be flexible on this..."

        Ugh...

    •  Axelrod said a compromise, which is no differnt (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, smoothnmellow

      than what he has said all along@ Huff post thought that it meant permanent, and that is where the controversey begins.
      But, in my opinion, the sooner axelrod starts running re-election, and gets the hell out of the wh, the better for the president.  This guy is getting played by d.c. and he is hurting, no thelping the president.  And I am a big supporter of potus!  
      The problem is, loaded questions, both the president and axelrod answer loaded questions, truthfully.  And then they have their headlines.  Why can't they just say No comment?.   These guys are just to honest, and need some street smarts, they are both being played!  The MSM must love fucking with them!  JEESH!  

      •  Show me where HuffPo said it would be permanent (7+ / 0-)

        In fact, the article says the opposite:

        For one, time is not on the administration's side. All of the tax cuts, enacted in 2001 and 2003, will expire at the end of this year unless Congress acts. The Republicans in effect "built in tax increases," Axelrod said. And separating out different categories of tax cuts now -- extending some without extending others -- is politically unrealistic and procedurally difficult, he added.

        "We don't want that tax increase to go forward for the middle class," he said, which means the administration will have to accept them all for some unspecified period of time. "But plainly, what we can't do is permanently extend these high income taxes."

        In other words, the White House won't risk being blamed for raising taxes on the middle class even though, arguably, it is the GOP's refusal to separate the categories that has put Obama in this bind. The only condition, at least initially, seems to be that the tax cuts for the wealthy not be extended "permanently."

        I thought we're supposed to be reality-based around here.  So let's not make shit up.  I'm no big fan of HuffPo in general, but in this case they appear to have an important story well reported.

        •  Thank you for posting that... (0+ / 0-)

          Because I was NOT giving that Huff Post rag the benefit of my click to that site to read it.

          What's the big deal people?  Why are folk here all up in a bind?

          I take what Axelrod said to mean that the legislation needed to decouple the middle class tax cut extension from allowing the cuts for the rich to expire would be very complicated to achieve in a lame duck Congressional session where the GOP is guaranteed to use every procedure in the damn book to gum up the works until they run out of time.  What's so damn hard in understanding this people?

          That is why the WH wants a deal on the table before Congress votes on it and part of that deal may be to allow an extension with a sunset provision until the GOP controlled House can explain themselves.  Explain to the country how da fuck they are going to make this work without screwing up the deficit some more.  If the WH is smart and I think that they are, they are going to make the GOP own up to their fiscal irresponsibility just in time for the 2012 Presidental elections.

          Now who's zooming who?

          "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

          by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:32:28 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I do agree with this. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell

        The President needs better message handlers than Axelrod, you are correct.

        "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

        by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:22:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Politico has picked up the story now (18+ / 0-)

      http://www.politico.com/...

      And this was not "an informal, off the cuff interview with a presidential advisor". This was an on the record interview of the President's oldest and closest political adviser, conducted by two tough, sharp experienced reporters, Sam Stein & Howard Fineman (Fineman is also Newsweek's Senior Washington Correspondent). HuffPo broke this story late lat evening, so it's no surprise that few other outlets have reported it by 8am eastern.

      I'm sorry that the news contradicts your glowing image of Obama. You can keep sticking your head in the ground and telling yourself that everything is just great for Obama and the Dems, or you can face reality and see that Obama isn't playing 99th dimensional chess with the conservatives. Rather he gives in to them every time without even putting up a fight. And the wingers know it to, they smell blood in the water and sense that Obama blinks and gives in every time. Obama Keeps abandoning his professed principles and promises that he made on the campaign trail. One must ask is there any line in the sand that Obama is willing to draw, on any issue, and stand and fight? I'm yet to see one, and Axelrod's interview is very clearly raising a white flag and surrendering on the Bush Tax Cuts, and it's disgusting.

      •  ? what if he did'nt get the tax cuts for the midd (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, gobears2000

        le class. Then he would be a sellout to middle class. especially in a recession. dammed if he do and dammed if he don
        t

      •  Axe defines MC security as tax cuts (0+ / 0-)

        in that interview.

        Would the Prez not "fold", he would be accused of denying security to the middle class. Axe painted himself into that corner, probably on purpose. It's happening.

        P.S. someone should tell Obama and Axe that jobs and spending provide more security to the middle class than freaking tax cuts.

        To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how much pressure they're under from the public. -- Noam Chomsky

        by just some lurker guy on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:16:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  HP is not the site that it once was (4+ / 0-)

      I post over there all of the time only for about 75% of my grammatically correct comments to be removed.

      Why?  Because all trolls and other people have to do is hit the "Flag as Abusive" and Ta Da, if those Abusive Flags outweight your Favorites, your comment is removed.

      So, it isn't free speech whatsoever.  Been watching the decline over there for some time now.

      -6.13 -4.4 Where are you? Take the Test!!!

      by MarciaJ720 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:37:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Most of the people here (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greeseyparrot, blueoasis, Yalin

        who complain about Huffpo would be there 10 times a day if they blindly worshiped President Obama with adoring headlines. Same with Cenk, Krugman, Ed Shulz, etc etc

        If you say anything negative about this President, whether justified or not, there is a large group of people here who automatically write you off.

        Say something bad about President Obama your name is Mudd.

        "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

        by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:24:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hell, I don't read the newspapers everyday (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          draba, gobears2000

          or watch Keith or Rachel with any sort of regularity.  What da hell makes you think I give a shyt about what Huff Post says ever?

          This is about getting the facts straight.  Not amening to the things that you choose to read because it supports your narrative.  Some of you folk are itching for an excuse to fight and Huff Post gives it to you.

          Except that it's not journalistically correct.

          But then again, most of MSM hardly is anymore.

          "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

          by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:37:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  This is why I don't read Huff Post... (4+ / 0-)

      They are worse than Politico.

      But here is what I did do.  I watched the 60 Minutes interview that the President did with Steve Kroft and this is what the President himself said about the tax cuts:

      (CBS) KROFT: One of the first chances you're gonna get to show a spirit of cooperation is on the Bush tax cuts, which are set to expire at the end of the year. You've said that you want to keep 'em in place for the middle class. You want them to expire for the wealthier Americans. The Republicans want to keep them for everybody. Are you ready to compromise on the Bush tax breaks?

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think we're gonna have to have a serious conversation about it. Here's an example where I'd like to think we could at least settle on those things we agree on. I think both Democrats and Republicans agree that for people making $250,000 a year or less, the last thing we want right now is to see their taxes go up. Not only would it be bad for them, but it'd be bad for the economy as a whole. Because those are the folks who are most likely to spend. And a lot of them are having trouble paying the bills. So, we don't want to make it harder on them. We want to make it easier on them to be able to participate effectively in the economy. For folks who are making more than $250,000 a year, you and me, Steve you know, the question is, can we afford to borrow $700 billion.

      KROFT: That's what it is?

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: That's how much it would cost over the course of ten years. To give us an extra tax break. Or does it make sense to say to us, "You know what? After the first $250,000, your tax rates are gonna go back to what they were under Bill Clinton." When, by the way, rich people were doing pretty well.

      Sometimes I think this debate gets framed as if I think rich people, folks who are doing well, should be punished.

      KROFT: Well, I . . .

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: Part of what America's all about is going out there and getting rich. And, you know, if you make a good product, you provide a good service, God bless you. I want you to do well. Then you can plow that money back into creating jobs. And building your businesses. That's terrific. What I don't think makes sense is for us to borrow $700 billion to pay for that. And we don't have the money. I mean, everybody's already talking about our debt and our deficit. Why would we want to add to it? Now, having said all that . . .

      KROFT: The Republicans want everybody . . .

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: I understand the Republicans have a different view. And so, we are going to have to have a negotiation. And I am open to you know, finding a way in which, you know, they can meet their, you know, principles and I can meet mine. But in order to do that, I think we do have to answer the question of how we pay for it. If in fact we're gonna extend these tax cuts, then we've got to figure out what does that mean for our debt and our deficit. Because there's no gettin' getting' around it. It's gonna cost $700 billion to extend those . . .

      KROFT: Over ten years.

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: Over ten years. Yeah.

      Without even going into that other thread, I already know that people are screaming their internet heads off.  Half of those doing the screaming probably didn't even bother to watch the interview, which I might add, that the conversation above was actually in the broadcast version.

      I know.  They were busy watching Sunday Night Football on NBC.  It wasn't even a good game.  Dallas was blown out early.

      For those who still can't understand it, the President will put to the GOP the question of how they plan to PAY FOR TAXES CUTS FOR THE RICH AND NOT INCREASE THE DEFICIT BY ANOTHER 700 BILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.  (Which in my mind is really more than that when one tacks on the interest rates. We are then talking about TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS).  The President stated CLEARLY what his position was going to be on this matter and that is to allow the tax rate for the wealthy to return to 1990's levels.

      Duh people.  Reading is fundamental, but not on Huffington Post.  Huffington needs to decide if she wants a hard political website or be 'People-lite'.

      "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

      by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:48:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And let me also add... (4+ / 0-)

        ...that the President has stated and he has the authority to negotiate and if that means that he would allow tax cuts for the wealthy to be extended, what makes the Huff Post or anyone else here assume that it would be PERMANENT?  What makes you think that the Obama Administration wouldn't want something in return such a compromise?

        People.  People.  The House and the Senate can vote to extend the tax cuts for the middle class and let the rest expire during the lame duck session right now.  None of them -- not the Congress or the WH is trying to allow tax cuts to expire for everyone by the end of this year.  That is political suicide for somebody.  They may allow an extension for everyone with a sunset provision (like until 2012 perhaps?), thereby making the GOP-controlled House in 2011-2012 come up with their scheme of cutting to explain how they are going to justify voting for the rich tax cuts to remain permanent.

        Thus the WH will make the GOP own their own mess going into a Presidental election year.

        You guys really need to think before reacting all of the time.

        "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

        by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:03:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They didn't. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yalin

          It might help if you read the article in question.

          •  I read the part that Axelrod said (0+ / 0-)

            That was posted on Daily Kos.  No.  I'm NOT going there to give that tabloid rag a hit.  Sry.  

            But I DID read what he said.  The problem for you is that you chose to interpret what he said in the way that Huff Post presented it.  

            However that's not how I understood what he meant.  I stated my understanding of it up thread.  You can go up there and read it.

            Because I'm not repeating myself.

            "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

            by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:41:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  HuffPo did not present it (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Terra Mystica, Yalin

              the way this diarist claims they did.

              Nowhere did they say anything about making the cuts permanent, except where they directly quoted Axelrod saying they won't do that.

              This HuffPo article is a good piece of journalism.  I'm all for criticizing them when they publish crap, which they certainly do.  But I don't agree with attacking them by misrepresenting what they publish.

              •  What I understand being presented here... (0+ / 0-)

                ..Is the implication by the Huffington Post that Obama is folding on the tax cuts.  That is what this whole debate is about.  

                Good piece of journalism?  Really?  If you are a part of deliberately leading readers to come to a conclusion about something that hasn't yet occurred, then that's not good journalism to me.

                That's being manipulating and tabloid-like to me.

                "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

                by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:57:06 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes. Good journalism. (0+ / 0-)

                  The direct quotes alone make it clear that the Obama administration will accept the extension of all the Bush tax cuts for some unspecified period of time.

                  I'm sorry, but that's giving in, exactly as the headline characterizes it.

                  I have explained what I think they should do, for example here.  But our "leaders" refuse to play political hardball with anyone but their own base, so I'm not holding my breath.

      •  I wish..... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greeseyparrot

        Obama had started with NO tax cuts for any total incomes over $250K - and then negotiated for tax cuts for everyone UP TO $250K. But he began with the latter.

      •  Feh. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greeseyparrot, blueoasis

        If you don't read, your false impressions can remain intact.

        There's plenty of valid criticisms of HuffPo, but this ain't one of them.  The diarist is just plain wrong about what this story says.

    •  You are indeed correct... (5+ / 0-)

      according to Greg Sargent

      UPDATE: White House denies giving in on Bush tax cuts: The White House is sharply denying the Huffington Post story claiming that David Axelrod signaled a willingness to accept a temporary extension of all the Bush tax cuts, claiming that their position remains unchanged.

      Axelrod emails:

         There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

      And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

         The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence.

      When people show you who they are, believe them. --Maya Angelou

      by xndem on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:59:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So what the Washington Post did... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, artmartin, MartyM

        Was run to the White House for a reaction to the Huff Post story and they strongly and FLATLY denied changing their position.

        It's too bad this post is not further up.

        Also the original diarist needs to revise his diary and add this link that the White House has already responded to this mess.

        I agree with the President.  People need to stop being so jacked up and look at all of the facts on the table before reacting.

        "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

        by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:10:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  This statement tells me everything (3+ / 0-)

        There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

      •  so basically the white house will allow the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        newpioneer, Terra Mystica

        extension of the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals, full stop.

        who gives two shits whether or not they're permanent or merely extended 2 years. In 2 years Obama is up for re-election. You think he's going to want to fight against the "You're raising taxes!!!" meme then if he won't even fight it now?

        The apologists are really out in full force....

        •  Your first sentence (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          artmartin, gobears2000

          confirms to me why the Progressives if they had the power, could not govern any better than the TeaBaggers could.

          "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

          by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:59:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  and your ignorance of the second paragraph shows (0+ / 0-)

            the precise opposite.

            •  Opposite... of what? (0+ / 0-)

              What you said didn't really sense in that second paragraph.  Explain yourself better.

              "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

              by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:20:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The argument over whether the tax cuts will be (0+ / 0-)

                permanent or extended temporarily for 2 years is irrelevant.

                The entire Bush Tax Cut was temporary. The AMT patch is temporary. And so forth and so on.

                Temporary has a way of becoming permanent when it's simply pushed off until some future date. And if Barack Obama won't allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire for the top 2% of wage earners now, you and everyone else honestly believe he'd do so in 2 years when he himself is up for re-election and would be subject to the "he'll raise your taxes!" meme anyway?

                That's a reality-based take on the situation and the fact that we're staring at an additional $700 billion in debt over the next 10 years if he doesn't fight now.

                Teabaggers don't deal with reality. Progressives do, hence your ignorance of the argument I just made regarding the budget and the political realities of the election 2 years out show just the opposite of what you tried to state.

    •  What I can't figure out (4+ / 0-)

      is what HuffPost's end game is. I got the email update from them this morning (I've not unsubscribed) and instinctively felt it was sensationalist and unjustifiably absolutist). It seems to indeed be part and parcel of their attempt to get progressives to turn on Obama and to stoke more of the "Obama is a total Blue Dog sellout who hasn't done a single thing differently than John McCain would have done" attitude we see a tad too much of here. So the what? You turn the enthusiasm gap into a chasm for 2012 and elect .... who? Huckabee? Gingrich? This is your goal? Don't see me that "worse before better" crap; that did not work out a week ago Tuesday.

    •  Too Late (0+ / 0-)

      Obama just threw in his hand and left the table. Indeed, the game is up and over.

    •  this diary seems to be a really strong case of (4+ / 0-)

      fingers in the ears "la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la!!!!!"

      whatever...

    •  I hope you are right and the Huffington post is (0+ / 0-)

      wrong. For otherwise, God help us all.

      Gender neutral marriage. NOW.

      by Montreal Progressive on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:04:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually we should all be promoting progressivism (0+ / 0-)

      by making unprogressives look bad.

      Obama's not a progressive. What's the real problem here?

      Those so-called Democrats who want to move the party towards the "center" should go on ahead and become the Republicans they really and truly want to be.

      by Superskepticalman on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:14:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just sayin... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Terra Mystica, sk4p, jinx303

      Rumors like this would not get much play if Obama didn't willingly cave on things like this so routinely.  If I was a betting man, I would bet that Obama goes with the temporary extension of the tax cuts to compromise and be bipartisan.  I could be wrong, and but I think the odds are solidly in my favor.

      In the end though this report is irrelevant.  There's nothing that the left is going to do to dissuade him from caving.  He'll make his choice independent of us because frankly he never listens to us.  He's going to make this "compromise" or not.  What he should do is hold the line and refuse to pass any extension of tax cuts for the wealthy.  But that's not his style.  

    •  Troll rated (0+ / 0-)

      Because the diary begins by lying about what the other diary says.

    •  We'll see... by the end of the year. (0+ / 0-)

      And, just like every other piece of legislation, it will be an inside the beltway clusterfuck that ignores anything progressives have to say about it.

    •  I would like to know... (0+ / 0-)

      How this Tip Jar from the diarist just became the 300th and some odd post instead of the first one?

      Gaming Diary Kos because you don't like certain diaries is way not cool.  Try not posting in threads you don't like instead.

      Kos need to deal with this problem.

      Disgusting.

      "I'm measuring everything the Democrats and President Obama do, not against what I WANT, but against the status quo." --RASalvatore 9/16/10

      by smoothnmellow on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:15:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This diary did not desreve HRs. (0+ / 0-)

      Uprated, even though I am pretty ambivalent about the contents of it

      If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

      by MikePhoenix on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 10:21:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I really don't like polls like this. Having a (0+ / 0-)

      diary with a very clear point of view and then asking a question in the poll where there is only one correct answer, according to the diary.

      It's like when I did the test for financial aid at my son's college.  "a parent's plus loan must be paid back starting after the child finishes college.  True or False, a parent's plus ...."

    •  Agreed! (0+ / 0-)

      People believe what they want to believe -- or what fits their already-formed conclusion.  We see it on the wacko conservative right -- and we see it on the left these days.  While the administration may have given away things too easily in its attempt for bipartisanship, it has NOT yet done that in this case.  But reality is, there are lots of democrats that want the tax break for all -- I do not envy the President's situation, and applaud his refusal to play chicken with middle-class tax payers, until he has the clear dem support he needs, and I mean elected dems unfortunately.

      Excuse me but who are the fascists?

      by SuzyQ60 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 11:05:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Huffpo got it exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

      Come back to reality, amigo.

    •  Hide rating not warranted and should be (0+ / 0-)

      removed.

    •  Tipped! Rec'd! (0+ / 0-)

      Thank you so much, whamfam!!!

      HuffPo DOES have an insane agenda to hurt President Obama.

      It's not only the failure to report reality that disgraces so much of the media and blogosphere -- it's the deliberate campaign of disinformation.

      "WE are the media we've been waiting for." - Kat 4 Obama

      by Kat 4 Obama on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:50:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Fineman is such a radical leftie (0+ / 0-)

      that he would just make this shit up... sad thing is when it happens you and others will end up spinning it as they had too! or go into your two legs better routine and defend it.  

      You refuse to believe what's coming at you even after the fact and when the likes of the NYT reports it. The world as it is is a far cry from change you can believe in. I may have to accept this as change they are cramming down my throat but I will never believe for one moment that this is the world as it is or inevitable.

      This is bait and switch and it is no more democratic then it is Democratic. They are not to big to fail and neither are their owners. It's the people who are too big to fail they are the ones who give them power and the Democratic party is the people party or it is nothing. Democratic voters are not as stupid as the other side.      

    •  "off-the-cuff" - oh please (0+ / 0-)

      Really?  That's the level of naivete we're supposed to have now as Democrats, that Obama's closest adviser made an off-the-cuff, completely non-political comment?

      It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad seeing people twist themselves into knots trying to not see what is in front of their noses.  

      Tax cuts for the rich is the public option conversation all over again.  The decision has already been made.

  •  I hope you're right. (7+ / 0-)

    But, "whamfan", your judgement is in question.  Wham? Really?

    People are fungible. You can have them here or there. - Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, responding

    by peterborocanuck on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:27:19 AM PST

  •  Old news (21+ / 0-)

    I wrote a diary on this almost two weeks ago.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    It's only news when he doesn't fold.

    "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

    by Paleo on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:30:17 AM PST

  •  May be the WH is floating a trial balloon (28+ / 0-)

    If there is no outrage they might go along with keeping the Bush tax cuts. So be outraged and incredulous.

  •  When does this administration not fold? (26+ / 0-)

    "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

    by Paleo on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:37:06 AM PST

  •  If the President did (4+ / 0-)

    ...fold by permanently extending tax cuts to the ultra-wealthy and also enacted the catfood commission recommendations to kill or limit Social Security, then I assume we wouldn't have to wait for the Republicans--Obama would be impeached from the left.

    But I tend to doubt that has happened.  He's not that stupid.

    We would be just a little bit closer to world peace if everyone would just grow some f-ing skin!

    by Subversive on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:43:09 AM PST

  •  denial... (6+ / 0-)

    Seriously, get a grip. Welcome to two years ago..

  •  Huff Post is nothing more than Arrianna (7+ / 0-)

    Huffington's vanity project.

    Tom: Paddy, your mom is sexy. Paddy: My mom is dead you prick. Tom: Yeah..... dead sexy.

    by kev9100 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:47:08 AM PST

  •  The HP doesn't say that Obama wants (10+ / 0-)

    to make the tax cuts for the rich permanent.  Actually it says that Obama does NOT.

    I think the point that Axelrod is making is that the tax cuts for all may be extended for a year or two.

    The reality that there was NEVER 60 votes for JUST the middle class tax cuts in the Senate (Manchin, Nelson, Bennett, etc).  

    I suspect that the compromise will be to extend all the tax cuts for a couple of years with the bargain that there will be an overhaul of the tax code.

    I personally don't have a problem with extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich for a year or two.  My problem would be to extend them permanent.  That would be the cave if that was to happen and that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Jim Manley: "Republicans are making love to Wall Street, while the people on Main Street are getting screwed."

    by Drdemocrat on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:49:41 AM PST

    •  He should have threatened a veto (12+ / 0-)

      from the beginning.  Stood firm and, if the Republicans and blue dog Democrats didn't agree, blamed the expiration on them.  That's what a strong president would have done.

      "We have to deal with the world as we find it (and not fight to change it)." David Axelrad

      by Paleo on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:00:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I completely disagree (3+ / 0-)

        If he threatened a veto, they would say fine, veto it then and raise taxes on everyone during a recession. Then, when that happens, for the next two years we would hear nothing except how Obama raised everyone's taxes. He can "blame them" all he wants, but will in turn blame him... and guess which version the media will pick up and amplify? Strength does not mean making threats, losing and blaming the other side for it. That would be pathetic. And a veto of tax cuts is exactly what they want him to do.  

        •  That is the case-in-point defensive arguement (0+ / 0-)

          that's the definition of the problem.

          Don't lament the fact that [often self-created "circumstances" dictate inabilities.  Push back, dang it!  Bully pulpit the crap out of people that choose to keep taxes high on the middle class, R and D alike.  If we, the middle class don't get more money in our pockets in 2011 there would be only one clear culprit for that, IFF an assertive argument was to be made.  

          The debate would be single-issue and crystal clear.  One would have to be exceptionally weak and/or oratorically powerless to allow that clarity/conversation to be shifted from present tense (what are you doing about it NOW?) to past tense technicalities (he let them expire).  Really weak.  

          Be aggressive.  Be proactive.  Triangulate to the left for a change.

          "Dega dega dega dega. Break up the concrete..." The Pretenders

          by Terra Mystica on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:36:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yes....this diary is far more inaccurate (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, blueoasis, blue in NC

      than anything on HP.  Not the best site in the world, but this diary is flailing trying to change the subject...

      "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

      by justmy2 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:23:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And btw - this is a cave (8+ / 0-)

      when in October you say no extension, and in November you say extension, that is a cave in if you get nothing in return.

      Moving the goal post may work with kindergartners, but please treat us like adults.

      "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

      by justmy2 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:24:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why 60 votes? (0+ / 0-)

      Why do they need 60 votes?   Didn't the Regressives pass the tax cuts with 50+ votes in 2001 and 2003 as well?

      Unless you meant 50 votes...  In the next Senate, if you take out Lieberman, Nelson, Manchin, Baucus, Landrieu and a few other blue dog types, they might end up with 45 or even less, i.e. the Regressives have a working majority and the Democrats are only nominally in charge.

      -7.75,-5.64 "Teabaggers : Useful Idiots of the Big Banks, Big Oil and Wall Street"

      by Whirlaway on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:41:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They extend them they are permanent. The rich (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MJ via Chicago, bigchin, rivercard

      in this country will move heaven and earth to make sure they never expire if they don't expire now.

      "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

      by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:44:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  i hate arianna nothing but drudge news is floated (7+ / 0-)

    on her site .. she just like to hear her own voice .. nothing positive comes out from about the pres. obama..i only believe it if came from obama's voice. right now there are plenty of rumors flying around ari is no progressive but a republican pretenting to be moderate

    •  You're exactly right... (7+ / 0-)

      People forget that she was Newt Gingrich's protege in the 90's, and was ruthless towards the Clinton administration.   Back then she was almost as bad as Rush Limbaugh.

      (-6.25, -4.36) Just another socialist lesbian undermining the sanctity of marriage by breathing

      by Gertrude on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:56:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  His own words? (0+ / 0-)

      "I will veto any bill that does not have a public option."

      The  best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. This President has a history of showing absolutely no spine and folding while holding full houses and straight flushes.

      "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

      by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:41:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It really is as bad as you think (6+ / 0-)

    The only thing missing from the Huffpo piece is a quote. But that's it, and the rest is what we're now used to.

    And then there this, just to rub salt in our wounds:

    President Obama, in fact, has called every new Republican senator-elect and many of the incoming GOP House members -- "well over 100 calls" in all, said Axelrod.

    That's how a shellacked president spends his plane time on a trip to Asia.

    Guess we're chopped liver. Or d'you think Franken, or Frank for that matter, has gotten a tenth of this much attention?

    He's a one-termer. And that's probably the best thing.

    What do we want? Compromise! When do we want it? Now!

    by itswhatson on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:53:25 AM PST

    •  You do not get it at all. This is not a courtesy (0+ / 0-)

      call. He tries to get good relations with them. And this may help when he needs one or two votes further down the road.

      You have to look for every chink in the armor, if you want to win. So many people on this site paint the other side with broad brush, guaranteeing that the other side will be nicely monolithic. However, the smart thing to do is to not demonize them (even though some are fairly demoniacal:-), giving them the benefit of the doubt more or less regardless of veracity. That is how Obama so far has managed legislative victories.

      You could learn something here. Of course, if you fret every millisecond that you have been sold out again, you cannot appreciate what is going on.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:23:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You're blowing in the wind (5+ / 0-)

    It is time to turn away from Mr. No Stones in the White House and start supporting someone else for 2012. Let's try to pick someone who is not a frady cat. We can do this all over again in 2012 with someone else who would have guessed we would get two Hoovers in a row.

  •  Axelrod did NOT say to extend permanently (9+ / 0-)

    Read what Axelrod said:

    "We don't want that tax increase to go forward for the middle class," he said, which means the administration will have to accept them all for some unspecified period of time. "But plainly, what we can't do is permanently extend these high income taxes."

    Jim Manley: "Republicans are making love to Wall Street, while the people on Main Street are getting screwed."

    by Drdemocrat on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 03:59:17 AM PST

  •  Kinda like... (20+ / 0-)

    According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts.  He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended.  This would be very big news (and contradict what he said in his Weekly Radio Address just a week or two ago).  And it would be extremely depressing.

    1.  The public option
    1.  DADT
    1.  Transparency in Govt
    1.  Holding banksters accountable

    to name a few....

    But hey, don't let an established pattern keep us from ignoring the grim reality of how Obama governs...

    Obama's signature accomplishment: Rehabilitating the GOP brand in two years. (he did promise CHANGE).

    by Johnathan Ivan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:05:43 AM PST

  •  We will find out (5+ / 0-)

    I believe the Huffington Post.  If you are wrong and other sites come up also, you should delete this diary.  

  •  Obama did not make backroom deals (18+ / 0-)

    with pharmaceuticals when the 34 million customer insurance bailout plan was put together, either.  

    The ship is fucking sinking.  The dead weight is pulling us under at a quicker pace.

  •  From all I've heard, HuffPo is, like Camelot... (5+ / 0-)

    ...a silly place.  But there's ample contextual evidence to support the view that Obama will fold on tax cuts for the wealthy.  He doesn't have a genuine sense of outrage about anything, which is the kind of even keel you'd like in someone who could blow up the world, but it gives the greedhogs a huge strategic advantage on issues like this.

    The most impressive thing about man [...] is the fact that he has invented the concept of that which does not exist--Glenn Gould

    by Rich in PA on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:07:17 AM PST

  •  One hypothetical question though... (13+ / 0-)

    If it turns out the President does sign legislation that maintains the existing tax cuts for the top 3% should we then continue to move on with our lives and not question this policy?  

    If we do call him out on it, would it make him look bad thus weakening his chances for 2012?  Should any criticism of the president's policies be dismissed because it is not the time or the place to question his policies, since he is a Democrat who will be running for re-election in 2 years?

    •  Another 2 years of SitDownShutUp (5+ / 0-)

      will give me plenty of time to check out the policy stands and voting records of the 2012 slate.

      Show me the POLICY!

      by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:17:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You should always move on with your life, (0+ / 0-)

      in fact you should always have a life.

      If it turns out the President does sign legislation that maintains the existing tax cuts for the top 3%

      then you should analyse, whether that was the best deal that could be gotten, considering the known positions of congressman/women. If that was the case or plausibly the case, you should move on and fight in another battle that has not yet been decided. If it wasn't, you should move on and fight in another battle, preferably one that has not yet been decided.

      And btw, 'fight' does not mean joining the poutrage club. It means educating public opinion, getting media access for your views on the issues etc. Nobody likes whining people and perpetually offended people so in order to be efficient you should strive hard to avoid giving such an impression.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:32:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nice summary (0+ / 0-)

        I agree with you. Unfortunately I cannot give you a rec on your comment because of the reference to the "poutage club" -- and "whining" which could conceivably be construed as an "insults" rather than a word expressing an opinion of a certain style of activism.... don't wan't to get into that... but otherwise your perspective on this mirrors pretty much how I feel too... continually blaming the president (whoever he is) for everything while letting congress completely off the hook just seems to me to be off the mark as far as the potential to be effective at changing this to more how we'd like them.

        I have really changed my own focus in the past year to local and state politics as my main focus. Obama is doing what he's doing, some things are excellent, some are good, some are OK, some are bad, and a few have been terrible and even trajic for some individuals. This is exactly as I expected from Barack Obama. Not all of his mistakes were those I would have expected him to make, but then as he said recently, things like successfully rescuing the auto industry was not "on his to do list when he was a candidate" and this is true. I didn't vote for or support Obama because of any specific promises he made, but because of his calmness and intelligence. With Bush, or McPalin, I would expected, and we would have gotten, 100% in the range of bad to terrible/tragic decisions and policies. So I'm delighted that Obama is president and I will certainly prefer him to any republican in 2012.

        That said, I am not at all happy with our congressmen/women, especially the blue dog democrats and the republicans in the house and especially the senators. They are the ones who have most seriously screwed us over. People want very much to believe that Obama has total control over everything that happens or doesn't happen, because then if only he would do what we want him to, that would fix everything. We don't want to, or feel that we cannot, send better legislators to Washington DC. And until we do that, this kind of shit is not going to change on a fundamental level. We do all know that. It's just a question of if you think criticizing Obama is a better use of your time and energy than working to elect a new progressive to congress. Surely there is one somewhere who has a shot and needs help.

        It's hard and very frustrating when we lose... which we did badly here in Arizona this time as you all know. The republicans are winning, the racists are winning, and we are not going to get better laws out of people likek that. To have a hope of winning, we have to change the minds of the people who vote for these assholes! That is a very hard, maybe impossible, daily uphill battle that we fight in our everyday life.. and to me what matters is to try to get a good candidate elected to offices where I live... and if I can't do that then help one from somewhere more enlightened.

        Convincing people here in Arizona that it is not a good idea to opt out of Medicaid is a much bigger deal to me right now that Barack Obama or the tax cuts for the rich. What I know is that we are barely, barely keeping our house and our heads above water as it is... if our taxes go up a noticeable amount in January, we will go under. I don't want that to happen. I think the republicans don't care if that happens to me or to anyone else. It would be good politics to hurt Obama, and although I know most of you here don't believe this, I can assure you that for many, many voters out here, having our taxes go up for any reason will be the end of Obama. So if the republicans are going to demand a ransom, they damn well better 'cave' and pay it. Nothing is "permanent" in this governmental style. If the current congress passes unaffordable tax structure that favors the rich, then we need do elect better representatives to congress. Educating the voting public and fighting these battles at the local level is how we change it. Or how we die trying.

    •  Of COURSE we should not question (5+ / 0-)

      his policy!

      What are you,

      fucking retarded

      or something? I mean, seriously, you should be

      drug tested.

      Haven't you learned anything? First and foremost, we serfs are tasked with keeping the

      savvy businessmen

      comfortably in their billions of stolen loot.

      Here, let me spell it out for you:

      1. You must always dutifully and admiringly clap and clap and clap every time Obama says or does anything...no exceptions.
      1. If Obama screws liberals and the poor and working classes, see rule #1.

      "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

      by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:37:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even clever editing (0+ / 0-)

        does not make is okay to insinuate someone is an f'ing retard. Otherwise I agree with your post.

        "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

        by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:48:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I actually wasn't insinuating (3+ / 0-)

          that the commenter was an f'ing retard...I was insinuating, via snark, that he wasn't.

          But I, like you, am offended by the use of that expression to describe people with whom one disagrees...which is why I was so offended that Obama's #1 Dude called liberals that for suggesting that we primary certain useless, right-wing, Blew Dawg "Democrats".

          "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

          by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:25:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue in NC

            Sometimes my comprehension skills abandon me.

            "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

            by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:42:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Apology accepted...but no apology needed! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Haningchadus14

              I myself cringe whenever I post that phrase, but I was so offended by Emanuel using it so capriciously that I just feel the need to use its awesome power sometimes to make the point that there is/was some real idiocy in the Obama administration.

              "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

              by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:58:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

                I am glad that we have reached the point in our culture where most people feel uncomfortable when they see the phrase or hear it.

                "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

                by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:16:10 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  We do not need to weaken him, he weakens (5+ / 0-)

      himself by being a pushover.  Do you think the American voter misses that fact that he is continually backtracking from week to week.  This is nothing, that comment from Asia about the Catfood Commission will be enough to sink him completely.  People will hear that they are planning to mess with SS with his approval and it will be an anchor around his neck for the next two years.  You think people hate HCR....just wait.

      "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

      by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:51:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Keep it up. (0+ / 0-)

        And when we get a Republican president in 2012, you will have the "strong" president you want so badly.

        So sad that posts gloating over the "weakening" of a Democratic president actually get recommend points on this site.

        faith is no substitute for empirical evidence

        by Rudyard on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:43:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tell Obama that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lakehillsliberal

          He's doing a very good job of keeping up the kinds of policies that turn voters off. Once again, pay careful attention to which Obama voters went Republican this year.

          Here's a clue:It wasn't the bloggers.

          Every politician in America is sounding like that mayor in Jaws. -global citizen

          by James Kresnik on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:36:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly...we held our noses and turned out anyway (0+ / 0-)

            but we understand the stakes.  The average voter votes his passions, not his interests.  They gave Obama specific marching orders...FIX THE ECONOMY and punish the fraudsters.  He did neither.  

            "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

            by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:51:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Ignore the dittoheads (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Kresnik

      Hold this President accountable when he does wrong, praise him when he does good. Do this regardless of whether the President is Republican or Democrat.

      Love your country more than your Party.

      "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

      by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:46:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The guy that did the interview worked at Newsweek (8+ / 0-)

    three months ago...

    just stop it...please...

     title=

    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

    by justmy2 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:20:24 AM PST

  •  Your title should be "Obama didn't fold YET"... (13+ / 0-)

    ...even if you really know for a fact that the HuffPo article is false.

  •  True, sort of (13+ / 0-)

    Yes, no official position by the administration has been announced. However, do you doubt that Axelrod said the things attributed to him in the interview? This is not some anonymous source being quoted off the record. It comes from an identified source that is very close to the president and likely privy to those policy discussions. David Axelrod is a very disciplined political operative. He is not going to chatter on the record to anyone. That immediately makes me think this is a trial balloon to see how much trouble it would create for president in the base.

    Be radical in your compassion.

    by DWG on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:27:34 AM PST

  •  Not only is this sensationalist bunk.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sophie Amrain, JohnB47, LynneK

    ...but it is bizarre to me that so many people are married to this particular source of $700 billion, each and every year.

    Permanent cuts would indeed be news, but even that should be on the table, dependent on what you can get for it.  We don't know what he's going to try to get from the GOPers, but he's got to do something.  It is all very well to twist your undies up in a bunch over every last compromise made by our President, but in the end, if he doesn't do something unpalatable to pretty much everybody... news flash:  it ain't that hard to shut down government, and the Republicans will be more than happy to do it.

    Think that'll spell doom for the GOP at the ballot box?  Think again.

    I'll be very shocked if we don't see a temporary (either 2 or 4 year) extension of the cuts for the top bracket.  The question is, what else will we see?  Wait for that tidbit before getting mad -- if it isn't something good enough then get down your pitchforks.

    "Confunde et vince." Come visit our chickens at http://bigmyrtle.blogspot.com

    by Walden Ponderer on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:28:41 AM PST

  •  I think with Axelrod saying he's going (5+ / 0-)

    To fold, you can take it to the bank.  What?  Does that seem out of character?  He should Chang his name to "Obama Folds."

  •  I heard on HuffPost that we would lose... (7+ / 0-)

    20 seats in the House for the 2010 Midterms.  Ooops.

    This story, like any other, requires some confirmation.  Until I see that, or until I hear Nancy screaming about it from the House side, I won't believe anything.

    DKos is the best site out there.  However, lately it's just become a screaming echo chamber of teh stoopid.  At the drop of a hat, diaries get recommended for innuendo and rumor mongering.  It may be time just to skip the Rec diaries and turn to the front page news, which is mostly reliable.

    The most dangerous... programs, from a movement conservative's point of view, are the ones that work the best and thereby legitimize the welfare state. Krugman

    by BasharH on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:30:53 AM PST

  •  People still read Huffington? (6+ / 0-)
  •  How can you possibly pretend to know? (8+ / 0-)

    The fact that the VERY DAY a story breaks, in the first paper it breaks in, you are going to say that because it's not in other papers it has to be false?

    It might be true, it might not, we'll see.  But your rush to defend the administration is no worse than those that would rush to condemn.  It's pathetic.

    He's not your daddy, stop treating him like he can't do something wrong.

    "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by burndtdan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:31:09 AM PST

  •  What is he doing??? (4+ / 0-)

    If this is true, then President Obama"s next compromise will be the billions and billions we have all paid into SS and Medicare will be cut.  I will e mail my concerns about allowing tax cuts at a time when our country faces a deficit and the only thing our so called Representatives can think about doing is eliminating social safety net programs. He is a real caver and Axelrod's deference to the professional right is frightening to say the least.

    It is simply unthinkable for any adult given our deficit could recommend this at a time of two wars that most of us thought at least one would be over.   The rich are simply getting richer while the middle class falls so far behind we will never catch up.  I see no silver lining in this except he will cave on medicare and SS.  He is dismantling the New Deal, the Great Society and his own presidency to boot.  

    What is he doing??

    •  History fail. (0+ / 0-)

      New Deal and Great Society got dismantled by Reagan, and two Bushes, with Clinton not doing that much against it.

      It is simply unthinkable for any adult

      Shows your lack of imagination and/or observation.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:41:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  CNN just covered (9+ / 0-)

    Axelrod's statement on-air, but it wasn't presented as a done deal in the case of the highest-income cuts.  Nor were the words "fold" or "give in" used.  

    Huffington is a good place to find late-night TV video clips, slideshows of cats and rednecks doing silly things, and seasonal recipes.  It is not a place to get news.  Once I figured that out it got easier to take (in small doses.)

    "Kos is so boring wonky I don't know how anyone can read it....but the left loves that boring wonky stuff..." -- some GOBP blogger

    by SteelerGrrl on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:32:17 AM PST

  •  Can you say "Public Option"? (7+ / 0-)

    Afghanistan, and Iraq withdrawl, DADT,???...etc...??  I bet you can't, but give it your best shot.  

    What the heck, letters in words are cheap on this subject, and there isn't any loss for cheerleaders when it comes to gametime in addition to the fact that critical thought seems to be in short supply on this, and other criticism posts.

    Flame away.

    "I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean I love the country but I can't stand the scene." - Leonard Cohen (Democracy)

    by LamontCranston on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:33:52 AM PST

    •  Ah, I was just reminiscing about (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, blue in NC, James Kresnik

      the Public Option.

      Or as I put it:

      We Can Haz Publik Opshun Pleez?

      How many months were we strung along before the coroner finally announced that the PO was indeed dead?

      Show me the POLICY!

      by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:23:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ah, but the public option doesn't matter... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fabian, James Kresnik

        see comment upthread.

        See? We got health insurance "reform", so everything ai wonderful now. Nobody will ever again die from lack of essential care, or be bankrupted paying to save one's life. All better now.

        See how easy that is?

        If Obama did it, it fixed everything. It's all about belief. Doesn't that smoke being blown up your ass feel all warm and conforting?

        "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

        by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:46:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And the whole time we were strung along (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fabian, James Kresnik, Aeolos, NatureHound

        We had all the Conservadems on this site telling us about 11 demensional Chess and bashing us for wanting a pony.

        It doesn't matter how many times we are right, or how many times it follows this eerily similar pattern as it's going down, these people are NEVER going to acknowledge it. NEVER.

        "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

        by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:14:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          James Kresnik, NatureHound

          I don't bother talking to them.  No point.  

          "Isn't Obama great?"
          "Yes, he's awesome!"
          "How about those policies?"
          "Amazing, couldn't possibly be better!"
          "I'm a bit disappointed by them myself."
          "But he's working so hard, and the Republicans, the Media, the Haters, the Economy - it's just not his fault!  People are so mean."
          "Ah, okay.  See you."

          Show me the POLICY!

          by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:29:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  He campaigned on expanding Afghanistan (0+ / 0-)

      operations.
      People's memories are getting as bad as the Teabaggers around here.

      How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove and doesn't have that dangerous beak. Jack Handey

      by skohayes on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:58:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, he campaigned on a short term expansion. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LamontCranston, James Kresnik, Aeolos

        It looks as if he is backing away from that as well.  Afghanistan is a cluster fuck and everyone knows it.  

        "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

        by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:05:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're right, it is a clusterfuck. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          James Kresnik

          He never said anything about a "short term" expansion. He said he was planning on adding 2 brigades, but never put a time limit on how long we would be there. He actually added about 30,000 more troops.
          His comments last year about starting withdrawal next year was a pipe dream, at least to anyone who's been paying attention to what's been going on there.

          How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove and doesn't have that dangerous beak. Jack Handey

          by skohayes on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:16:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  To quote a famous Senator...who is going to (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            James Kresnik, Aeolos

            be that last man to die for a mistake(clusterfuck).  Not leaving Afghanistan next year will be another nail in his 2012 bid for re-election.

            "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

            by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:30:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  "To anyone paying attention" you'd know (0+ / 0-)

            that Obama is being what he's always said he was.
            Yeah.  The rest of us were not and still aren't paying attention.

            How often are we going to see this pathetic little meme repeated on this site to our shame.

            These folks are going to take these lies to the grave.  I can see them now in the rocking chair, murmuring on and on about the early teens and how no one was paying attention to BO's speechifying and qualifying and backpedaling if only they had understood how to decode these silver words and see him for the neocon-right-of-center-capitulating-piece of milk toast he never claimed he otherwise was.

            It was all our fault we got it wrong.

  •  Your search engine equals FAIL (11+ / 0-)

    On Thursday, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs indicated that the president "would be open" to discussing the option of extending the cuts for upper-income families for up to two years.

    Try harder.

    Were you also one of those people screaming about those of us who were disgusted when the catfood comission was formed because "nothing has happened yet"?

  •  asdf (7+ / 0-)

    Obama folds more often than the National Origami Champion.......

    Only those blinded by obsession or devotion can now believe, after nearly two years of counter-evidence, that Obama is any different from the other namby-pamby Democrats we seem to be saddled with on a regular basis.

    All bark. Little or no bite. And, ultimately, pussies.

    I will be going Green Party starting in 2012.

    They may not get elected - but they seem to accomplish about as much as Democrats do - with far fewer resources.

    The Democratic Party. Never has so much been squandered so quickly for so little.

    by GayIthacan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:35:42 AM PST

    •  fdsa (3+ / 0-)

      Yeah and the people that should have his back are all stabbing him right now. Let's see what happens to the gay agenda when the R's return to power because of the pettiness that accompanies remarks and deeds like yours.
      Truly, the idiocy that I thought was contained on the right is spilling over.

      •  "gay agenda"? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dem Beans, blue in NC, orestes1963, Aeolos

        Not sure who you think is "on the right" when you use a phrase coined and popularized by the RWNM.

        Show me the POLICY!

        by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:27:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I thought EVERYBODY knew what (3+ / 0-)

          the gay agenda was:

          8:00 a.m. Wake up. Wonder where you are.

          8:01 a.m. Realize you are lying on 100 percent cotton sheets of at least a 300 count, so don't panic; you're not slumming.

          8:02 a.m. Realize you are actually in your own bed for a change. Wake stranger next to you and tell them you are late for work so won't be able to cook breakfast for them. Mutter "sorry" as you help him look for his far-flung underwear. You find out that you tore his boxers while ripping them off him last night, so you "loan" him a pair of boxer-briefs, but not the new ones because you never intend to see him again.

          8:05 a.m. Tell the stranger, whose name eludes you, "It was fun. I'll give you a call," as you usher him out the door, avoiding his egregious morning-breath.

          8:06 a.m. Crumple and dispose of the piece of paper with his telephone number on it when you get to the kitchen.

          8:07 a.m. Make a high protein breakfast while watching the Today show. Wonder if the stories you've heard about Matt Lauer are true. Decide they must be.

          8:30 a.m. Italian or domestic? Decide to go with three-button Italian and the only shirt that is clean...

          There's more. Betty Bowers answers all your questions. ;)

          "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

          by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:51:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, yes. Clap hardrer. That'll do it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue in NC
      •  Have his back? He needs to stand for something (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fabian, Militarytracy, Aeolos

        in order for us to have his back.  So far, I cannot find what he stands for except letting Wall Street, the banks, corporations and the rich operate without fear of contradiction or much resistance.  

        "When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

        by lakehillsliberal on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:08:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why should we have his back (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Militarytracy, Aeolos

        When he obviously doesn't have ours? Loyalty is a two way street regardless of what some people might think.

        He wants support without having to earn it.

        "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

        by Haningchadus14 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:31:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  So the Greens have managed health care reform? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      royce

      I must have overlooked something.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:44:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They'd be the first. (0+ / 0-)

        We didn't get health CARE reform, we got health INSURANCE reform.

        I was actually relieved when my sister ended up getting her surgery for ovarian cancer via indigent care.  It meant she wasn't going to get screwed by an insurance company.  

        Do you have any idea what the copays for doc office visit, surgeon office visit, pre op testing, hospital admission, pathology report and follow up care are?  Those are just the co-pays.  Then you wait and hope to hell that you don't have to fight over anything the insurance doesn't want to pay for - but you THOUGHT was covered.

        I suppose the good news is that you can only sink so far into debt now due to annual caps on out of pocket expenses.  

        Show me the POLICY!

        by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:02:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Don't you mean Insurance Reform? (0+ / 0-)

        You're still under a delusion.

    •  I think there were (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fabian, orestes1963

      a lot of people warning other people about that during the primaries. I think if people had not been so taken with the thought of electing the first black President or perhaps done more research on his prior legislative accomplishments (or lack thereof), his willingness to compromise with Republicans, his willingness to look at both sides of an issue, his centrist leanings, they might have voted differently.
      Too bad more didn't listen, eh?

      How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove and doesn't have that dangerous beak. Jack Handey

      by skohayes on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:03:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I did the SitDownShutUp thing (0+ / 0-)

        after it became evident that many were not interested in Obama's track record of ardent centrism.

        I don't even bother with I-told-you-so, because it's not like they were listening the first time, the second time or the tenth time.

        No, I just sit back and watch who was paying attention and is unsurprised and who is feeling betrayed because they weren't paying attention.

        Show me the POLICY!

        by Fabian on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:13:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •   HuffPo isn't a person. They have writers, and (5+ / 0-)

    each writer stands on his or her own credibility and the sources they cite.  Guess you think Axelrod is liar and a demon out to get Obama, too.  One thing Jon Stewart was right about is partisans in both parties.  They can't see anything but the realities they concoct..  

    Don't tax the rich, starve the poor.

    by dkmich on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:35:43 AM PST

  •  President Obama Has Folded (20+ / 0-)

    if he just extends the tax cuts for the wealthy just one year or one day.  He needs to take a stand and say no more, not now, not on his watch.  If all the tax cuts should expire so be it.  The deficit will go down and in the end so will the repugs.  If need be President Obama can pass a new middle class tax cut next year.

  •  My Guess is This (5+ / 0-)

    "We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod said during an unusually candid and reflective 90-minute interview in his office, steps away from the Oval Office. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

    My guess is that quote is the text (in it's entirety) that they translated into "Obama folds on tax cuts for the wealthy."  

    I dont' doubt that if the House and Senate sent Obama a bill that INCLUDED an extension of those tax cuts (in other words, if that's the only bill they could get out of congress) he would probably sign it... I'm not actually sure what choice he would have.  But since the legislative battle hasn't happened yet...

    That said, I'm not surprised by HuffPo's "interpretation," or the willingness of those here whose bile ducts have grown bigger than their brains to lap it up.

    Dear Wall Street: If you want to stop feeling like a piñata, stop stuffing yourself with our f#@$ing candy.

    by TooFolkGR on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:37:43 AM PST

    •  Thank God Axelrod is leaving. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fabian, TooFolkGR, Aeolos
    •  Ever hear of context? You have to interpret (0+ / 0-)

      the choice of words within the context of the questions and the intent of the spin.
      That's what separates political journalism for plain reporting.  And they all do it from TIME inc to CNN to NYT's, the blogs of Politico et al.

      The Huffington article is clear and its damn good reporting.
      And anyone who claims that most dkos users lap up anything is projecting one segment's blind adoration of one particular political figures every breathless word.

      A neat trick of not brainless but manipulative reality deniers who expend tremendous amounts of energy to stay loyal in bitter defense of a broken administration.

  •  Hmmm....Well, We shall see! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missliberties, Hillbilly Dem

    We shall see!

    ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

    by ArthurPoet on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:37:50 AM PST

  •  Its called "breaking a story" (5+ / 0-)

    The media has many internal problems but one of its external problems is the fact that many people don't want to be informed, they want their biases confirmed. This diary is a surreal example of that.

    Huffingtonpost is quoting Axelrod on the record. Its what he said. Furtehrmore, this is Howard Fineman, he is pure Village media. That's probably why they got the exclusive in the first place.

    You really believe Axelrod is going to go out of pocket for a 90-minute interview with such a high level of candor? If so then you are accusing the Whitehouse you are trying to defend of enormous incompetence. Face reality.

    The cave, the Matrix, America.

    by Grassee on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:37:52 AM PST

    •  Axelrod did not say they will fold. (0+ / 0-)

      The media has many internal problems but one of its external problems is the fact that many people don't want to be informed, they want their biases confirmed. This diary is a surreal example of that.

      Exchange 'diary' for 'comment' and it fits perfectly.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:51:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, either Howard Fineman is lying (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aeolos

        or severly misinterpreting what one of the closest advisors to the President of the United States is saying. Either scenario making absolutely no sense.

        I am really tired of emotion-based thinkers willing to tear down every institution, including journalism, because it might cause them emotional distress.

        The cave, the Matrix, America.

        by Grassee on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:46:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This has been ongoing at this site for well (0+ / 0-)

          over a year.  It is not about to stop now.
          And it has spread to disparaging the whole of the frontpage here.
          That's how far in the sand they've embedded themselves till this very site is part of the problem with reality as they see it.

  •  yeah! (0+ / 0-)

    what are the odds obama is full of shit?

    i'm sure we're perfectly safe.

  •  Anyone who thinks this is not exactly (7+ / 0-)

    Where Obama is headed is delusional.  Perhaps axelrod spoke sooner than he was supposed to, but judging by past behavior and all the "opening the door to talks" puss-out language by the WH over the past few days, Huffingtonpost may just be the first to cover the White House's latest surrender.

    I'm glad the White House still has you though whamfam.  I like the cut of your jib.  Obama's going to need people like you to reach 35% in 2010.

  •  Howard Fineman (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justmy2, Dem Beans, poxonyou

    God knows I don't always agree with Howard Fineman, but he is a respected journalist.  He quoted Axelrod.  

    Now, the quote actually is no different than the position we've heard.  But still......

    Mr. President, STOP giving away the store upfront.  Negotiate.  Strategize.  There are many, many ideas out there that you at least could contemplate an aggressive approach instead of reactive.  For once -- stop letting your enemies define you.  Stop it.  Now. The country wants the rich to be taxed.  Read the exit polls and recent polls on this subject, for God's sake.  

    If it will be so damaging to be 'responsible' for 'middle class tax increase', decouple and put it up for a vote.  Make the fucking Republicans vote against middle class tax cuts.  Hang it around their necks.  Instead, you're willing to tie a ballooning deficit to your tenure?  That's acceptable to you?  

    And fire Axelrod.  His whipped puppy look makes everyone cringe.  

  •  Looks like Ariana needs to prove she's not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheGreatLeapForward, LynneK

    irrelevant. I wish she would just take her billions and go away.

    Solitude is painful when one is young, but delightful when one is more mature...Einstein

    by tazz on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:50:09 AM PST

  •  It has also been reported on CNN and ABC. (6+ / 0-)

    Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. Harry Truman

    by temptxan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:51:27 AM PST

  •  He's lost me too. He will not fight for anything. (4+ / 0-)
  •  How did this stupid diary make the rec list (9+ / 0-)

    And, apparently, there are still masochists here who didn't learn a damn thing from the last two years of capitulation and the resulting election.

  •  Any story from huff post of fire doggy lake (3+ / 0-)

    I just pass on by, "reformed" Republicans aren't great sources.

    "slip now and you'll fall the rest of your life" Derek Hersey 1957-1993

    by ban nock on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 04:58:31 AM PST

  •  Unrecommended, this shit is true, he caved. (6+ / 0-)
    •  NO HE DIDN'T (10+ / 0-)

      I read the entire article, and no where in the article did David Axelrod say or imply that OBama was going to fold on the Bush tax cuts.

      According to the HuffingtonPost Article:

      "We don't want that tax increase to go forward for the middle class," he said, which means the administration will have to accept them all for some unspecified period of time. "But plainly, what we can't do is permanently extend these high income taxes."

      Here's what David Axelrod Said:

      "We don't want that tax increase to go forward for the middle class."
      "But plainly, what we can't do is permanently extend these high income taxes."

      Now here is what HUFFINGTON POST SAID to fill in the GAPS and to mislead readers:

      which means the administration will have to accept them all for some unspecified period of time.

      David Axelrod himself NEVER said that.

      This is how journalists can distort information to trap poor readers (apparently a significant majority of the electorate) and promote garbage and propaganda as reporting.

      Huffingont post took once sentence, of his I'm going to write a diary on this shortly

    •  Bullshit...source it outside of the huffpost (6+ / 0-)

      clusterfuck. You can't...can you?

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:08:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The source is an interview (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Willa Rogers

        with Sam Stein yesterday at the White House with Axelrod.

        If Axelrod was being misquoted, he'd be all over this.  He had not issued any statement saying that this is not true.  He hasn't said that he was misquoted or misunderstood.

        Get a grip.  You're making a fool of yourself.

        •  Tell it to your gang of caricatures. (0+ / 0-)

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:27:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Plum (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CalliopeIrjaPearl, Hopefruit2

          Reports

           The White House is sharply denying the Huffington Post story I noted below claiming that David Axelrod signaled a willingness to accept a temporary extension of all the Bush tax cuts, claiming that their position remains unchanged.

             Axelrod emails:

             There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

             And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

             The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:38:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Where does he say (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WisePiper

            that the President is not willing to temporarily extend the tax cuts for the wealthy?

            Where does he say that the story is inaccurate?

            He says it's not news and it's "overwritten" but he NEVER denies that it's true.

            The issue at hand is whether or not the President is willing to kick the can down the road and extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy for some number of years, not permanently.

            And Axelrod clearly says that they are willing to compromise.

  •  More Huffington Poo.... (6+ / 0-)

    Take a look at their "health" section.

    It's an absolute festival of woo and bunk and quackery.

    Even anti-vaccine garbage gets airtime over there.

    HuffPoo is not a credible news source.

    •  Hey, remember when they reported (3+ / 0-)

      ...that Geithner was against Elizabeth Warren for head of the Consumer Protection Agency and hundreds of people here wet themselves over that "story"?  Pretty funny.

      "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

      by Triscula on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:42:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not only that... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sophie Amrain, G2geek

        I do hope all these people here beating their chests to death do not see the Clintons as their savior because I don't think they really believe it.  The left has a losing mentality!  Again, someone please tell me who has been the left great savior for the past 50 years?  It's certainly not Bill Clinton, is it?  And he was the only two term democratic President in a while.  Perhaps Obama is learning that lesson that it's better to be in position of power rather than going to multiple protests.  For the past eight years while the left was shouting & protesting...George Bush and the radical right was having their way.

        •  Well, here's what I think is funny (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          billlaurelMD, G2geek

          Remember all those folks here who insisted that a massive defeat for Democrats would teach the administration and Democrats in congress a lesson and force them to move to the left?  Yeah, we'll see how that goes now, won't we?  

          This is the problem with idealism that is untempered by pragmatism.  As a liberal Democrat I have a strong belief in liberal ideals but I know that we must operate in the world that exists NOW.  Pushing policies to the left will be a long term project and real success MUST involve disciplined efforts to push VOTERS to the left.  We also need to focus much more attention on local and state level races and build our stable of up-and-comers for the future.  

          These sorts of unsexy and labor intensive projects appear to be unappealing to the loudest talkers in the world of online liberal activism.  I've seen practically zero discussion about building for success in the future.  I guess the payoff is just not immediate enough to appeal to the modern expectation for quick gratification.  However, it's instructive to understand that conservatives didn't gain the influence they have today without the preceding four decades of work.

          "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

          by Triscula on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:23:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yep, a HuffPo piece a couple days ago (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek

      slammed Dr. Sanjay Gupta (CNN Medical reporter) for taking money from drug companies.

      Turned out to be a completely different Dr. Sanjay Gupta in NY who had nothing to do with CNN. It took me 5 seconds to figure this out from the link in the story. However, the writer (someone front page at HuffPo) wrote a ~1000 words on this. Eventually he figured out from the comments he was an idiot.

      I am not sure if HuffPo was ever reliable, but certainly is not now.

  •  You didn't find it anywhere else (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poxonyou, crankyinNYC, plankbob

    Because the news outlets aren't particularly surprised.  It's not news.

    "Obama caves."

    Yeah.  Big fucking headline.  What's new?

  •  It's like you don't know how Fed Gov works... (3+ / 0-)

    The Republican party is holding the Middle Class tax cuts hostage to benefit the rich.

    Don't you get that?

    If the tax cuts lapse in full, the Middle Class will get screwed. If Obama vetoes the bill on principle, he will screw a large portion of the country that is hurting. Then, Repugs will completely sweep into office in 2012 and then we'll all be thinking back how good things were in 2010.

    The president doesn't have the line-item veto, he can't sign what he wants and ignore the rest. He can only sign what Congress delivers to him.

    It's as if many posters don't know how the system works.
    Pelosi and Reid are as much to blame, if not more, for the lack of progress over the previous 2 years.

    The Republican party holds the Middle Class hostage to benefit the rich.

    by MT in Austin on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:04:07 AM PST

    •  Let All The Tax Cuts Expire (5+ / 0-)

      The deficit will get paid down, and then next year or the year after pass new middle class tax cuts.  Voters think their taxes are raised already.  When President Obama tries to get a new middle class tax cut passed they will think it is a new one.

      •  Believe it or not, I agree with this. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        billlaurelMD

        I'm pretty poor, and struggling, but I'd be willing to give up the few hundred a year in tax cuts I got from the B**h brackets to reduce the debt by $3.3 trillion over the next ten years...as long as the cuts for the Haves and Have-Mores are never allowed to come back.

        Unfortunately, the way this administration (and most of the remaining Dems in congress) like to cave, I wouldn't be surprised to see the middle-class tax cuts go away and the top 1% tax cuts be increased even more.

        "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

        by blue in NC on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:02:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Why can't he sign the bill and add a signing (0+ / 0-)

      statement that voids the tax cut for the rich? Bush did it all the time.

    •  Which is why the Democrats (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MT in Austin

      should be screaming that the Republicans are holding up middle class tax cuts because they want to benefit the rich.  Hear any such screams?

  •  Love dueling diaries---soooo productive.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justmy2, Onomastic
  •  e-mail the White House (0+ / 0-)

    Dream, that's the thing to do (Johnny Mercer)

    by plankbob on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:04:33 AM PST

  •  And this is on the rec list? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Grassee, Kentucky Kid

    Pat K California, Grassroots Mom, PLS, Better Days, Jeff Simpson, Schnert, Creosote, cfm, macleme, Glic, Cedwyn, nalakop, Subversive, virginislandsguy, madame defarge, BlogDog, Sophie Amrain, Hughsterg, snowbird42, G2geek, SaraBeth, rb608, Whimsical, DemInLux, MBNYC, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, Pinecone, BasharH, Dem in the heart of Texas, mconvente, dotster, joy sinha, Fiddlegirl, christine20, tr GW, organicdemocrat, joe from Lowell, richdoll, karpaty lviv, zeiben, catwho, 2questions, Gertrude, Lolo08, NorthCacalakaGirlForBO, Floande, TigerStar337, toftme39, not4morewars, coquiero, Valerie8435, ban nock, elektra, EsperanzaCambia, IDTT, debit, SoCalSal, SteelerGrrl, KiB, delmardougster, ANY THING TOO ADD, MartyM

    I really want to understand from those above what about this diary you find appropriate?  It is more inaccurate than the article it is commenting on, but it is recommended?

    I really hope it was simply recommended because the words HP Crap are in the title, because there is nothing remotely accurate in the diary itself.  Even folks like DrDemocrat above make that clear.

    Have some standards people...

    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

    by justmy2 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:07:22 AM PST

  •  Poll missing a third option . . . (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, billlaurelMD, nathguy, PhilJD

    The White House floated a trial balloon trying to measure sentiment.

    Sam Stein, the Huffington Post reporter was actually called  on at a presidential news conference; he clearly has sources inside the White House.  So the odds that he's just making sh-t up are close to zero.

    The fact that a political adviser floats an idea out there doesn't equal "the president is going to do it".  But it is probably true that the President is considering caving as one of his options -- or at least his high ranking political advisers are.

    The fact that the leak was made to HuffPost and no one else has run with the leak isn't that unusual.  Especially considering that the story was posted at MIDNIGHT.

    •  And that's why you pick HuffPo. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NotGeorgeWill

      They don't even need to deny it.  If the response is negative, just let the reflexive defenders dismiss the report out of hand based on the source Axelrod picked.

      "To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well." Justice Robert Jackson, Chief Prosecutor, Nuremberg.

      by Wayward Son on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:17:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Also specifically targetting HuffPo . . . (0+ / 0-)

        is a way of narrow-casting the trial balloon to the most liberal part of the political coalition.  If the idea floats on HuffPost, then odds are the White House would consider pursuing the option.  On the other hand, if the idea results in a strongly negative response, then we get the situation you've described.

        Still, did the White House really need a trial balloon on this one?  The majority of people in the country favor letting tax cuts expire on the top-bracket.  It doesn't take a genius to guess that that significant percentage of that majority encompasses an overwhelming majority of liberals generally.

  •  HuffPost is EXACTLY like DrudgeReport. PERIOD. (3+ / 0-)

    I've spent a LOT of time there, and found at least 80% of their headlines to be click-seeking lies once the actual articles are read.

    They INTENTIONALLY try to make the president look bad, yes - but it's not just that - MOST of their headlines are INCREDIBLY misleading. This is no exception, but it's a big example of what they do.

    It's a terrible site.

    May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.

    by dasheight on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:09:47 AM PST

  •  Top of the rec list? (0+ / 0-)

    Who said the Right had "truthiness" on lock? Didn't feel it in your gut huh?

    The cave, the Matrix, America.

    by Grassee on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:10:23 AM PST

  •  For all that say "Let them expire', (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sophie Amrain, dasheight

    Kiss my ass!!! I need my tax cut. 59% polled says compromise to get things done,18% say don't. I'm with the 59%.

  •  Perhaps, but based on The Administration's (3+ / 0-)

    proven track record of the past two years (caving to all things Republican - or maybe it's not caving - that's what they too believe in), this has the total ring of truth to it.  Like all good urban legends. . .

  •  Still not clear why Reid can't/doesn't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sophie Amrain, cyeko, jobobo

    simply craft two separate bills to decouple the tax cut expiration and force the Senate to vote on them separately.  Let Republicans vote against/filibuster extending middle class tax cuts.  Go ahead.  Let Democrats vote to extend them for the wealthy.  Obama can always veto the latter.

    What am I missing?  

    "Put your big-girl panties on and deal with it." -- Stolen from homogenius, who in turn stole it from a coffee mug.

    by Mother of Zeus on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:12:52 AM PST

  •  Speaking of making Obama look bad... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mirandasright

    I bring you Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball (let the puns begin).
    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/...

    "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis D. Brandeis

    by VA6thDem on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:14:43 AM PST

  •  IF this is true, one term is all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Red Bean, hkorens

    If we do not allow the Bush cuts for the wealthy to expire it is criminal.

    If President Obama allows them to be made permanent, we just sink deeper into debt.

    I do not like taxes.  I like SS, public roads, public schools, public health care and a government promoting the middle class.  There is a price and we pay that in taxes.

    If the President continues to cave, we need a new President.

  •  Your first sentence is totally wrong (4+ / 0-)

    Here is the lede:

    President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

    Nowhere does it say anything about permanent.

    "There are concerns," he added, that Congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future by passing temporary extensions for the wealthy time and time again. "But I don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point."

    Nope, no "permanent" in there either.

    A temporary extension, in a sadly predictable compromise from the WH. I suspect you didn't read the article.

  •  This cave in was signal from the get go back in (7+ / 0-)

    the beginning of September.  First, Obama refused repeatedly to answer the question whether he would veto an extension for the rich, which signaled he   really was not taking a strong stand.  Next Plouffe left the door open and then Van Hollen talked explicitly about a compromise.  You can see more details here, here and here.

    Obama will cave.  You can count on it.  Hell, it would be totally out of character if he didn't!

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:19:13 AM PST

  •  For those comforted by a temporary extension (11+ / 0-)

    for the rich, consider that the Republicans will fight just as hard to prevent letting the "temporary" extension expire.  This "temporary" extension is nothing more than kicking it down the road.  If they get a majority in the Senate (which is likely if Obama keeps caving in to them), the extension for the rich too will become permanent. If you think a "temporary" extension for the rich will stop after whatever time they give it, I've got a public option to show you.

    This will be a last straw for many more progressives than were lost with Obama's cave on the public option.  This could be a disaster for Obama and Democrats in general.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:23:56 AM PST

    •  2-year extension - and what will happen in 2 (4+ / 0-)

      years? Gee. Hmm. 2010 elections anyone? Will any candidate not rush to give tax cuts to the rich in a presidential election year? The "temporary" extension is a ruse.

      So the real "debate" will be whether to make the cuts permanent now or in 2012 (or 2013).

      Vampire Girl by Zoltan Abraham - Look for it on Amazon.com

      by Zoltan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:39:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I just heard Obama on the radio (0+ / 0-)

      talking about the Catfood Commission and how the American people are going to have to do hard things to cut the deficit.  I'd say he might just get re-elected in 2012 because conservatives and teabaggers will flock to him.  If that's not 11th dimensional chess, nothing is!  What a clever squeak toy.

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:47:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously? (0+ / 0-)

        conservatives and teabaggers will flock to him

        They will still paint him as a socialist and a tax and spend liberal.

        No matter what he does.

        But he doesn't get that.  I'm not sure if you're being serious here or not.

      •  LOL, NPR this morning... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon, Enzo Valenzetti
        NPR ran one of the co-commissioners this morn. After the host explained that to fix a deficit, you have to increase revenue AND cut spending. Then the commissioner agreed that both sides will  need to COMPROMISE like this:

        The Dems will have to allow for DEEP cuts to social spending!

        And on the other side, we need to have tax CUTS at the same time!

        See how that's a "compromise?"  

        •  Right now (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          accumbens, Enzo Valenzetti, Ginger1

          on MSNBC, the talking heads, including he of great wisdom Luke Russert, are saying that since both sides dislike the Catfood Commission proposals, they must be on the right track!

          Only Alicia Menendez has a clue in this discussion.  The rest look to be communications majors with tortoise shell glasses that they probably don't even need, discussing highly complex fiscal and social issues when they haven't the first clue nor have they any real experience in the real world.  They're insipid, know nothings that never go more than a millimeter below the surface of an issue.  Chris Jansing, the snotty, right-leaning host is the perfect person to lead them.

          This shit has a serious impact on millions of people's lives and these talking shitheads just don't care.  It's more important that they open their mouths and condescend on someone.  That's the most important thing in their world.  Oh, and probably what model of phone they've got.

          •  These sorts, I like to say, have their heads (0+ / 0-)

            so far up their asses they have to keep talking in order to breath and see where they're going.

            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

            by accumbens on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:36:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  MSNBC - DELETE THIS DIARY (11+ / 0-)
    Was just discussed in MSNBC.  Axelrod did say these things.  

    This diary is a total distortion of the truth.  CHECK THE NEWS AND DELETE IT.  You are entitled to love Obama, but you are not entitled to falsify and misrepresent information.

  •  The rich didn't earn a tax cut (7+ / 0-)

    NO to extending the tax cuts for the upper incomes. Why?

    In 2001 and 2003 the tax cuts favored the upper incomes.

    We were promised millions of new jobs.

    We were told trickle down would work this time.

    What happened? The rich got richer - and no one else.

    Productivity increased - but the rich didn't raise wages; they decided to make themselves richer.

    Profits increased - but the rich didn't raise wages; they decided to make themselves richer.

    The tax cuts were supposed to spur investment in the US - but the rich invested overseas for a better returns; they decided to make themselves richer.

    While the rich got richer, the Country went further in debt.

    The rich had their chance. They only looked out for themselves. Now is time for us to look out for the rest of the Country.

  •  I think what HuffPo did is right (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hkorens, dan667

    What HuffPo did is right.  Show me ONE instance in which the Obama administration has NOT folded to the teabaggers/bluedogs/assorted-regressives.   And that was when the Democrats supposedly controlled the House by a margin of nearly 100.   This is now, when the Regressives control the House and considering that the Senate has crap like Lieberman, Nelson, Baucus, Landrieu (not a complete list), they effectively control the Senate as well.

    It is a good bet that what HuffPo is saying today will become real news in the coming weeks.  By then, it will be too late for progressives to do anything other than banging their heads against the wall.

    -7.75,-5.64 "Teabaggers : Useful Idiots of the Big Banks, Big Oil and Wall Street"

    by Whirlaway on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:34:32 AM PST

  •  But that is how the mixed messaging technique of (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fabian, darrow, CherryTheTart, PhilJD

    the Obama Administration works. Obama says one thing (usually in favor of the Democratic agenda). His advisors or subordinates make statements that contradict Obama and indicate a willingness to work with the right. Obama supporters get confused and don't know who to believe or what is going on. In the end, Obama embraces the right-wing policies in question, and his followers are not quite sure how we got there.

    The real trick in his messaging is how to embrace right-wing policies without making the movement too obvious. The Democrats have to be left with some hope and some confusion so they can still argue that Obama is implementing a good plan over all. The mixed messaging does the trick.

    Vampire Girl by Zoltan Abraham - Look for it on Amazon.com

    by Zoltan on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:36:25 AM PST

  •  There is a river in Egypt...... nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, HootieMcBoob

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Albert Einstein

    by Sydserious on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:47:31 AM PST

  •  Your proclamation is no different than Huffpo (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob

    except they have a source for their info by a reporter with a good track record of being ahead of the game.

    Your calling the reporter a liar. What is your source.

  •  now that this story is being picked up, can we (0+ / 0-)

    assume an update is forthcoming?

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/...

    http://www.bloomberg.com/...

    etc

    etc

  •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Red Bean, sephius1

    Message to those who desperately want the folding angle to be accurate:

    "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" - Simon and Garfunkel

    Americans do not burn books.

    by Rustbelt Dem on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:51:50 AM PST

  •  Diary is factually inaccurate, dishonest, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Fabian, Willa Rogers

    and should be corrected.

    According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts.  He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended.

    Did you read the article or the diary in question?  Because it said the opposite of what you dishonestly claim here.

    Nobody said that Obama was going to advocate making the tax cuts permanent.  Not Axelrod, not the article, and not the diary that sparked this dishonest reactionary diary in response.

    What they said was that he would agree to extend the tax cuts for some period of time.

    Please make an update and correction to your diary.

  •  Obama folded like weak President he is. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob, hkorens

    The interview by the Huffington Post was with Obama handler Axelrod so this is correctly considered coming from President Bambi.

    Obama has floated several times that if the GOP minority, controlling only one half of Congress vs. half of Congress and the presidency for Democrats, wants to keep the destructive Bush tax cuts, he will bow to their will.

    Axelrod's quote laid out the heart of the failure of the Obama presidency when he stated Obama deals
    "with the world as we find it".  Of course that is not the role of leadership. The role of leadership is to change the world as it is which is, of course what Obama said he would do when running for president and now runs away from as president.

    Here's the real world as it is.

    1. Bush tax cuts have been a fiscal and economic disaster for the US and should be allowed to expire. Force GOP to prove it can't be trusted on promises such as following through on expiration date of taxes.  Force GOP to admit Bush tax cuts killed US economy and added $3T in debt. How you gonna pay it back GOP?
    1. Obama has power to veto them and help US and beat GOP politicaly.
    1. But Obama has no concern for good of US.
    1. But Obama is too weak to be President.
  •  Temporarily extending the cuts for rich IS (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cslewis, Eric Blair, Ginger1

    folding. That's a cave.

    I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

    by slinkerwink on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:56:18 AM PST

    •  No (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billlaurelMD, Jerry056

      The folding is not extending those temporarily, the folding comes with not even being able to decouple them. That's the huge folding, and apparently without a fight or with out taking it to the press to the public or to congress.

      If it rolls like that I will start believing the meme of Obama's administration being weak

  •  I don't understand - Where are the ads from (4+ / 0-)

    Move on - from other progressives.

    Simple to the point.

    shots of warriors / Veterans then pan to a picture of wall street and a wealthy mansion.... They sacrifice for you - where is your sacrifice?   Stop the tax give-a-way to the richest 2% of our country....and support our heros.

    and a fade out voice that says... if the tax cuts had worked 1) we would not have deficit and 2) we would have lower employement.

    Takin it to the streets....Doobie Brothers

    by totallynext on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:57:36 AM PST

  •  The goal of a HuffPost headline (7+ / 0-)

    Is to make you look so they can charge more for ads.

    In the pursuit of that goal anything is fair game. Headlines from HuffPost, on almost any subject, are misleading roughly 99% of the time. The goal here is to make you look.

    An accurate headline like "President Obama's advisor says the President is reviewing all options to maintain middle class tax cuts" would not break through the clutter.

    "Obama caves" or something like that will. It always will and that is why this headline is in heavy rotation over at HuffPost waiting to be attached to any thin gruel that might attrack eyeballs.

    Huffington Post is no more a progressive site than Fox News is a news network. It is a site that aggregates gossip, opinions and the reporting of other outlets and then slaps sensational headlines on selected items to drive traffic.

    That fact that it works with rubes of all stripes is demonstrated by that weakly sourced panic Diary that you reference.

    Thanks for calling this chicken littlism out for what it is.

    Cheers

    Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

    by dengre on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:58:17 AM PST

    •  not exclusive to Huffpo however (0+ / 0-)

                           -------------->

      "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

      by Sybil Liberty on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:06:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I Agree Huff Post Is Like All The Rest Of The (0+ / 0-)

      media scumbags, but the story has the making of truth.  President Obama should not give in to the repugs.  Take a stand and let alll the tax cuts expire.  Next year pass a new middle class tax cut that makes sense and really does some good.  End of story.

  •  Uhhh, Actually Huff Post Says: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ctsteve, joanneleon

    WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board, temporary continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

    the operative word being temporary.

    before blowing up and getting your tighty-wighty's all in a wad, you might want to read the piece.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 05:58:19 AM PST

    •  But that's not how it's being reported (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sephius1

      Seriously, I am going to stop reading so-called "news" until Obama actually steps his foot back on American soil.  But thanks for the clarification.  

      I thought "temporary" was always in the cards, and that this was actually something more than that.  

      Ugh.

      •  The Larger Issue (0+ / 0-)

        The larger issue is the wealthy continue to get eveything they want, while we "the little people" are going to get slammed with higher taxes, i.e. possible elimination of the mortgage deduction, tinkering with the alternative minimum tax, etc.

        "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

        by Superpole on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:41:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cslewis, Fabian

    if folded is the right word but seriously if they don't even fight the decoupling fuck them. This will be the worse signal. It reeks weakness, it reeks weak knees.

    Not even with a issue polling good are they going to present some fight?

    I've never bought the Obama is weak, I though he just was to much of a negotiator but if they give up on this it stinks as weak and is so wrong for the country, not just ideologically that it makes really clear that we are fighting with pillow against some one with a machine gun

  •  I'm willing to wait and see (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smkngman, Miggles, rtcfrtc

    But don't blame Huffington Post's Sam Stein for what David Axelrod said on the record.  If anyone is out of line, it is Axelrod for presuming to announce the President's decision while the President is out of the country.

    The same goes for the military "advisers" who announced that the 2011 timeline for withdrawing troops from Afghanistan has been extended to 2014.  That is not something to announce when the President is out of the country meeting with heads of state.  Unless the military wants to sandbag Obama's withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    And it is not Huffington Post's writers like Sam Stein that is the problem.  It's Huffington Post's sensationalist headliners who seem not to read the story they're writing a headline for.

    What Sam Stein claims is a lot less than what the headline said.

    And what Axelrod seems to have intended to say was "We will deal with Congressional reality."

    Well the reality is that they could let the Bush tax increase go into effect and work on middle class tax cuts later as a stand-alone bill.  Or let it lapse and let the middle class see how puny the Bush tax cuts were for them.  What could you do with $50 a month but pay down the deficit?  Especially if the wealthy are kicking in hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.

    After all, the best investment that Americans can make right now (if the Catfood Commission co-chairs are to be believed) is lowering the deficit.  More important than infrastructure investment or backfilling state budgets or paying to keep teachers in schools.

    Or are the Catfood Commission co-chairs more interested in additional tax cuts for the wealthy than they are in eliminating the deficit?

    A lot of Democrats' main concern is that Obama not be frightened away from allowing all tax cuts to expire for fear of an election ad in 2012.  If it's stalemated in Congress, he should let the Bush tax cuts expire.

    The American people should have it demonstrated very clearly to them whose interests the Republicans are for.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:06:58 AM PST

  •  Oh, you'll hate this even more (0+ / 0-)

    Fox News has independently confirmed the HuffPo story.  There will be other, less hateful news sources doing the same.  But then, I could be wrong.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:08:13 AM PST

  •  MSNBC is reporting that the Obama admin (5+ / 0-)

    is willing to extend all of the Bush tax cuts.

    And John Boehner has responded, saying that he is happy about it.

    Ready to delete your dishonest, PoS diary yet?

  •  HP's big splashy headlines I take with a grain of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, theuniversal

    salt.

    They are tabloid whores when they do this crap.

    Pisses me off too....

    "The Public Option = Peace of Mind for all Citizens."      -- R.L.

    by Canaryinthecoalmine on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:08:32 AM PST

  •  This is what the HuffPo article actually says: (5+ / 0-)

    President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board, temporary continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

    Emphasis added.

    It's possible that the article originally said "permanent" and has been changed, but since it was written by Sam Stein, the guy Axelrod actually talked to, that seems pretty unlikely.

    That leaves as the only remaining options:

    1. Whamfan, our intrepid DKos diarist, can't read... or
    1. S/he has an, ahem, agenda beyond the simple truth.

    Hat tip to bluesteel, who first pointed out the irony of this particular, oh-so-convenient, "misreading."

    When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

    by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:10:35 AM PST

  •  This diary is incredibly annoying (10+ / 0-)

    When is a source not a source. Everyone is lying, including Axelrod. Everyone is conspiring and conniving. Yes, everyone was untrue when the rumors surfaced about the PhRMA deal; everyone was untrue when the rumors surfaced that the public option will be ditched; everyone was lying when Tim Geithner opened the vault to Wall Street; everyone is lying about the disastrous deficit commission. Good lord, sometimes some people cannot see the truth even when it comes and kicks them between their eyes, because they want to live in their alternate reality.

    I made a prediction in my last diary that all the Bush tax cuts are going to be extended, and the deficit commission will propose draconian cuts in SS and medicare. I am right on both counts. These ideas are coming from the people who are either this President's closest advisers, or were hand-picked for the job by this President. This President owns these ideas. To act or to believe otherwise is just plain delusional.

  •  This is why I supported Hillary. I didn't expect (0+ / 0-)

    the 1/2 term Senator from Ill. to be a great leader - a great orator maybe - but not a great leader...and I was right.  In fact he's probably to the right of Hillary on many issues.  I hope that Obama doesn't do to the Dems what Bush did to the repugs.  The American people appreciate a tough fighter even if they don't agree with his decisions..and Obama isn't capable of that.  You bet Hillary would be tought.

  •  It's not the Huff Post at fault... (0+ / 0-)

    it's the other diarist who left out a key word, "temporary" from his supposed quote. It represents nothing new in terms of what's been on the table for some time now.

    Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

    by Ian S on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:20:56 AM PST

  •  I didn't read the huffpost article, but (0+ / 0-)

    I already know your wrong.  The huffpost loves sensationalism (which is why i don't read it much).  They always write teaser headlines  to stories that aren't really all that, or in this case make policy out of a misguided quote.  That is just their status quo.

  •  Axelrod was quoted verbatim (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon, hkorens, NatureHound

    so I think this is an unfair shot at Huffington Post. Yes, he didn't say permanent tax cuts, but honestly the political directors complete unwillingness to launch a political fight when one is handed to him on a platter--that leaves Democrats feeling hopeless.

    There will not be many issues for Obama to run on. This is being handed to him on a platter, and the political director is frankly a coward.

    Yes, the congressional makeup is difficult. I agree with Axelrod there. But we're NOT talking about new legislation here.

    The tax cuts are EXPIRING!!!!

    Democrats are surrendering their one big issue.

    The country has seen ALL ITS WEALTH go to the rich.

    Be a statesman, Mr. President, DO NOT listen to your cowardly political guy.

    There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

    by upstate NY on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:21:09 AM PST

  •  ....SEE NO EVIL; HEAR NO EVIL.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NatureHound

    from now on I am going to call you guys Britney.

    It's always the same reaction, attack the messenger...Public Option...no..no Obama is 100% for it, those evil Huff-po, don't listen to them...

    guess what, you need to wake the fuck up.

    •  It is was Republicans fighting for health care (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HootieMcBoob

      reform, they would have fought tooth and nail for Single Payer, and grudingly gave in [maybe] for the Public Option.

      ------

      Democrats?

      Run away!
      Someone said they might not be happy!

      Quick, hide!
      It's a TeaParty rally!

      I hate that Republicans can stand and fight for horrible obnoxious hateful stuff, denying science, denying justice, denying basic human rights, denying economic fairness and just plain goddamn common sense.

      Meanwhile Democratic leadership run like scared mice at the slightest oppositional noise, when given the very lifelines of millions of citizens to hold in their hands, when they should be defending the justice system they walk away.

      It's disgusting: it makes me sick thinking about it.

      The rest of the planet looks on in horror as US descends into another fresh round of Insani-Tea.

      by shpilk on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:49:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am so (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, Jerry056

    sick of Huffington Post's tabloid journalism.

  •  I'm incline to believe the Huffing Post (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hkorens, PalmTree, Miggles, NatureHound

    Unfortunately, this White House has compromised on anything and everything. This is one of the most unprincipled Democratic white house's I've witnessed since I've able to vote.

  •  Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Huffington! Whaaaaaaaaaah!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NatureHound

    I look forward to you returning... AFTER AN EXTENSION OF THE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH IS PASSED... to tell us how wrong HuffPo was.

    :lol:

    More and Better Democrats

    by SJerseyIndy on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:27:08 AM PST

  •  uhm... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, NatureHound

    I bet my well worn socks that, in the spirit of compromise, BO will give in to the republican demands a.g.a.i.n.

    "America is a Thing you can move very easily" - Netanyahu In 2001 http://news.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleId=731025&sid=126

    by duende on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:27:45 AM PST

  •  It's like when Brit tabloids used to run (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, FiredUpInCA

    headlines screaming "Did The Russians Invade the UK?"
    and then on page two they'd write "no".

    Huffpo is a shitrag that carries water for Adrianna's versions of the truth. Anything to drive this US=3rd world bullshit narrative she's going on about.

    Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one. ::Goethe::

    by Jeremy10036 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:30:11 AM PST

  •  So here we go again (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, NatureHound

    Give away your negotiating position before negotiations begin.

    Why would they ever settle for 2 years extension..The White House signaled that before the elections.  They can walk all over the white house and dems and they know it...They did it when they were in the minority.   This will not end well.

    Joint Comm better get back to work factoring in trillions of additional debt. Lets slash education and Medicare to fund these all important tax cuts.

  •  It's common sense that they're going to fold (8+ / 0-)

    You don’t have to read Huffpo to know they're going to fold.. This can be known by what "democrats" could have done before the midterms (if they wanted to fight this thing). Democrats could have proposed a stand-alone middle class tax-cuts bill, while allowing all Bush tax-cuts to expire as scheduled (Jan 1 2011), which takes an act of congress to keep them from expiring. If republicans would have blocked a stand-alone middle class tax-cuts bill, democrats could have gone to the midterms saying "republicans blocked middle class tax cuts while supporting an extension of tax-cuts for the rich". It was like a gimme that democrats didn't take.
    If Obama and the democrats wouldn’t put up a fight when it would have given them a political advantage going into the midterms, what makes anybody think they’re going put up a fight now (in a lame-duck session, after they've already lost the midterms)? Not only is it a no-brainer that they’re going to fold, it’s a no-brainer that they never intended to let the tax-cuts for the rich expire, or they would have proposed a stand-alone middle class tax-cuts bill, while allowing all Bush tax-cuts to expire as scheduled (Jan 1 2011), which even Boehner admitted that he would have to go along with if that was the only choice he was given. Just another instance in which the spoken intent of the "democratic" team is contradicted by their actions. Democrats basically pushed the tax-cuts issue into the next session of congress (which everybody and their dog knew would be controlled by republicans).
    Many of us see today’s "democrats" and republicans as on the same team (especially with Obama’s cat food commission).

    •  Not just Obama (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hkorens, Mike Taylor, Miggles

      The Democratic leadership knows how to fold: they are experts at it. Every major issue in the past 4 years while D's controlled Congress shows them folding at the slightest challenge.  

      And then they wonder why people weren't motivated to get off their asses and vote for them.

      Go figure.

      The rest of the planet looks on in horror as US descends into another fresh round of Insani-Tea.

      by shpilk on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:43:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I read the HuffPo story and frankly (0+ / 0-)

    I didn't see much that was news. The President has already said he was willing to compromise (or consider a compromise) with Republicans by temporarily extending cuts for the wealthy, a compromise which the Republicans opposed because they want them permanent. The compromise that President Obama mentioned did not seem required as 1) the Democrats still have the House and 2) a "temporary" extension would expire in a Republican-controlled House which would love to extend them forever.

    The only news I did see in the HuffPo piece was that it is apparently unrealistic to even think the Democrats will do anything different during the lame duck. It's depressing, but I think it is true.

  •  Great, now I can tell my husband to can it (0+ / 0-)

    when he starts raving about the Headline...I am sick of hearing about how "Obama is a one termer", "How Obama has lost", "How Obama has caved", "Obama is spending 200 million on a trip to Asia!", "Why is Obama traveling all the time, he should be staying home"! Almost every day for two months the complaining has gotten worse...Obama had better do something so I can start raving!

    Courage is what you are in the dark. Emilio Lazzardo in Buckaroo Bonzai

    by Temmoku on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:35:18 AM PST

    •  just because some complaints are false (0+ / 0-)

      does not mean that all are false

      Obama is not Kenyan. Lord knows he is no socialist. He never contemplated 'death panels.'

      But neither is he a fighter for the interests of the American people, nor for the Geneva conventions and the basic principle that Napoleon recognized - that torture really is an unjustifiable crime.

      Politics is not arithmetic. It's chemistry.

      by tamandua on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:44:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let the tax cuts expire. Hit reset. (5+ / 0-)

    If the tax cuts are so effective, why does the economy suck?

    •  exactly! where are the jobs if trickle down (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mirandasright

      is supposed to work...for the last 8 years!

      I'm a member of the Herbal Tea Party.

      by stagemom on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:42:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  How may jobs does $70 billion a year (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cricket7

      given to billionaires and millionaires make, anyway?

      10 people, at $7 billion year?
      100, at $700 million a year?
      1,000 at $70 million a year?
      10,000 at $7 million a year?
      100,000 at $700,000 a year?

      1,000,000 people, literally a MILLION PEOPLE at $70,000 a year is what $70 billion dollars a year brings to the table.

      $70,000 a year, for a million people.

      I cannot believe that if the tax cuts for the rich expire, over a million Americans will be losing good, solid paying jobs.

      Do you?

      The rest of the planet looks on in horror as US descends into another fresh round of Insani-Tea.

      by shpilk on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:12:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, hkorens, NatureHound

    I heard impeachment of Bush and Cheney is still on the table, Single Payer is likely, ending DADT is going to pass ..

    ---------

    I don't need no stinking HuffPo badges to tell me which way the wind is blowing, thanks anyway.

    The rest of the planet looks on in horror as US descends into another fresh round of Insani-Tea.

    by shpilk on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:39:10 AM PST

  •  Obama ALWAYS folds (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, hkorens, NatureHound
  •  Come on. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob
    Of course he's gonna fold.

    When the GOP offers Obama a political hammer with which to pummel them, he instead uses it to flog himself like some masochistic Opus Dei disciple.

    The correct political stance on this is a showdown, accusing the GOP of creating the mess in the first place with their temporary Bush tax cuts and setting forth Obama tax cuts to provide permanent relief to working, middle class Americans.

    I can't believe how fucking politically inept Obama has proven to be.  I DID NOT vote for this spineless bullshit.

  •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1

    The Huffington Post is obsessed with all things Palin.  Anytime I click on that website the first thing I see is two or three pictures of Palin and usually one of Bristol.  

  •  FOX is (mis)reporting same n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  HuffPo is increasingly worthless. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, artmartin

    This may well be a trial balloon, but I wouldn't trust it coming from them. They have no credibility whatsoever, and are attempting to become some sort of unholy hybrid of the Drudge Report and a British tabloid. Just look at the HuffPo science and health stories if you need any more evidence of their low regard for the truth.

  •  I don't see a problem with letting all tax cuts.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, Nax

    expire and then champion for only tax cuts for the middle class in the next congressional session...

    ...unless they are afraid that the MSM will crucify them.

    That's going to happen anyway so why not???

    JimmyP

    The smarter and harder I work, the luckier I get!

    by JimmyP on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:45:13 AM PST

  •  The campagin to discredit continues at DKOS... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, hkorens, PhilJD
    And the campaign to discredit progressive media sources continues here at DKOS...

    Anyone who criticizes "our" President from the left must be immediately and ruthlessly attacked! Let us see know evil, hear no evil and speak no evil of our beloved President--and most especially the evil truth that he continues to support many of the same right-wing policies that we have been fighting against since the dawn of the Bush years.

    And when Obama DOES cave, will there be an apology or  retraction of this tabloid hit piece?

    Of course not! There never is...  

    Consider that pieces like this do more to undermine my support of the Democratic party than pieces that report the facts of Obama's "center-right" policies.

    Diarist, you will either allow some room for the left in our new Democratic "center-right" tent, or the left will have to put up its own tent.... You're not  doing Obama or  the party any favors at all. This anti-huff crusade might as well be funded by the Chamber of Commerce.

  •  If admin does, it's because... (0+ / 0-)

    they're afraid the MSM is going to absolutely crucify them.

    The smarter and harder I work, the luckier I get!

    by JimmyP on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:46:31 AM PST

  •  Obama is all about folding (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob, splashoil

    The examples are many
    Health Care Reform
     No public option
     Back door deal with Big Pharma
     Mandate

    Financial System Fraud
     No prosecution of big players - Example: Angelo      Mozillo former CEO of Countrywide
     Ra-appointment of Helicopter Ben Bernanke
     No real audit of bank books - instead we get 'stress tests" that use the banks own mark to myth asset valuations

    Don't Ask Don't Tell - I'm not even for this and I'm furious at Obama's lying and triangulation

  •  Obama will back Public Option! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shpilk, Spiffarino, NotGeorgeWill

    Lol.  His great plan to fold on tax cuts for rich first so after we wait for Cat Food Commissioners to polish their "product" he can sign it passed by "bipartisan" coalition of GOP, third way, and blue dog Democrats.
    Dry cat food is not bad with canned milk from the food bank!

  •  wait, wait! you're both right! (0+ / 0-)

    on the left, we tend to think of the "bush tax cuts" as the tax cuts for just the wealthy...c'mon, don't you think that most of the time?  i know i do.
    unfortunately, the name "bush" is on tax cuts that effect lower brackets, too.  

    but back to the point of huffpo's headline.
    maybe there's an ulterior motive...and BOY did it work!  woke you right up!  

    ad dollars and activism all at the same time!

    I'm a member of the Herbal Tea Party.

    by stagemom on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:50:11 AM PST

  •  Just return to the Clinton-era levels. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NotGeorgeWill, PhilJD

    For everyone.  Period.

    "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

    by cartwrightdale on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:53:39 AM PST

  •  You're Right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NotGeorgeWill
    He didn't fold... he didn't even pick up the hand he was dealt; he's too busy re-arranging his imaginary hand.
  •  Did you read the article..it was Axelrod ? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, Spiffarino, NotGeorgeWill

    Can't get too much closer than that.  Hide and watch. That is how it will come out fur shure.  Wanna bet?

  •  Given that it's Obama, easy to believe. Tha'ts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob, mrblifil

    what this is saying.  

    Let's face it, he's not been known for his tough actions (not to be confused with hopey-dreamy rhetoric) when it comes for stances that are liberal/progressive and good for the working people and poor of this country.  This is not to say he is a sociopathic Republican monster, however.  Just that he's pretty clearly thrown his hat with the rich, powerful and corporations.

    Obama needs to channel TR+FDR: Walk Softly, Carry a Big Stick and Welcome Their Hatred. Walk Softly, CHECK. Time to get on with the rest already, Barack!

    by FightTheFuture on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 06:57:40 AM PST

  •  Well, read the FP article (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, jentwisl, Militarytracy

    To all those who worked so hard to get this to the top of the rec list, you proud of your victory for delusion?

    The cave, the Matrix, America.

    by Grassee on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:01:29 AM PST

  •  The reality of the 24/7 news cycles which of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, IL JimP

    course now includes the major political blogs as well as all night Asia and Europe financial cable channels which report market movements on a 24.7 basis and which sets the tone for the opening of Wall Street, is a frantic  competition for 'traffic' which morphs into adverting revenue.

    This is why diaries like this one that attempts to parse and analyse the accuracy - truth is in the eyes of the reader or viewer - are so important.

    Because ,is-information and dis-information spreads as quickly as a wildfire and has no supremacy over truth or seasonableness.

    Bravo. This is actually what the 'wreck' list must be if this site is the remain relevant as an information resource and not just a place to hold flame wars.

    Thank you............ David Axelrod refuted the Huff Post claim in a quote to National Journal that the report was overstated and distorted.  Consider the source, Howard Fineman?  Huffington Post, the personal propaganda anti-Obama machine designed to line Ariana Huffington pockets.! LOL

    Of course no one is talking about the reality of if  ALL the tax cuts do get extended, thus saving the middle class from paying higher taxes for two years it will then force the Republicans to run on a platform of having held the middle class hostage to the rich in the 2012 presidential election. I say Bring It On.

    •  Except... This diary that you extol... (0+ / 0-)

      is far more "fact-challenged" than is Stein's HuffPo piece...

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:01:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Define 'extol' and then prove your statement (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sephius1

        with competing links to competing facts that need to eb challenged.

        On second thoughts, I've spent enough time on this non-story for one morning and have to get some work done.  - in the real world.

        Have a nice days.  if you want to have the last word go ahead!  i don't mind, I know how important it is around here to think you are right and have won an argument.

        Go for it.  I'll try not to react!  its hard though, really really really hard!!!

        •  No interest in the last word, but I'll respond (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Agathena

          to a couple of direct points you make.

          You said: "Diaries like this one... are so important." I thought "extol" was a fair shorthand for that, but if you disagree, I won't insist.

          More importantly, Stein's HuffPo piece says this:

          President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board, temporary continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

          The diarist reported that Stein said this:

          He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended.

          My emphasis. If that doesn't strike you as blatant misrepresentation of the content of the HuffPo story, we apparently don't inhabit the same part of the multiverse.

          When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

          by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:35:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, I read Hiopefruits diary as trying to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IL JimP

            clear up the considerable confusion reported in numerous blogs this morning and on cable TV about exactly what Axelrod is reported to have said or meant in a piece written and reported by Howard Fineman and Sam Stein in Huff Post.

            By now a front pager has entered the fray, as well as Greg Sargent in WaPo and as far as i can see noone has proved exactly what Axelrod is supposed to have said because he says he didnt say what Huff Post says he did.

            That is why I have spent a lot more time than I should on trying to get people to analyse the he/said/she/said  reporting.  I realize it is a waste of time, but what the hell.

            I that is dwelling in a differnent multiverse, then i guess i do.

            Ciao.

            •  Huh? I thought we were discussing... (0+ / 0-)

              the diary that we both are commenting in... a reasonable assumption, you must admit. I'm not sure where Hopefruit enters the picture; whatever she's written, I haven't seen yet.

              This diary, by whamfan, blatantly misrepresents what Sam Stein has written on HuffPo; whether deliberately or stupidly, I couldn't say really.

              Either way, this diary should be deleted.

              When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

              by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:17:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  not a reasonable assumption actually at all in (0+ / 0-)

                view of fast breaking events and competing diaries and information pouring in like the BP oil spill in full gusher mode.. This is already yesterdays fish and chip wrapping. Got to keep up!!!!

  •  sorry but if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilJD

    both the middle class tax cuts and the top 2% remain temporary, and we have to deal with the Republican bullshit demand that the temporary take us past the 2012 elections, then he folded without a fucking fight.

    Nothing in the direct quotes indicate that they are prepared to be seen taking a strong position and insisting that the middle class cuts be permanent.  Axelrod indicated how weak their position was in that the Republicans could be expected to keep kicking the can down the road with temporary cuts.  Same damn thing as extensions on unemployment, a continuing political sore that keeps being reopened and the Democrats always on the losing side.

    This is bad policy and bad politics, it increases the deficit while continuing the greatest single economic and political threat, continuing to bleed the middle class and working class in favor of the very rich at the same time the poor will see cuts in the programs that help them.  

  •  Are Ariana and her band of journalists a bunch (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, Adept2u

    of disgruntled PUMAs or something?

    Democracy for America, still the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

    by boofdah on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:07:09 AM PST

  •  I'm wondering if Axe is setting up a bait/switch (0+ / 0-)

    for Repubs. Chat like he's gonna fall for their crap; then WHAMMO, Obama draws his line in the sand.

    Just wondering aloud, is all.

    Democracy for America, still the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

    by boofdah on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:08:18 AM PST

    •  Can you show me one instance (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon, PhilJD, gila, jinx303

      where they have done this?

      Just one will do.

      The rest of the planet looks on in horror as US descends into another fresh round of Insani-Tea.

      by shpilk on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:14:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can you show one instance where they would have (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boofdah, sephius1, IL JimP

        the space to actually play politics.  The minute they would try anything "progressives" would set their hair on fire.

        Change happens because of you...Barack Obama

        by Adept2u on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:55:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure, health care reform . .. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah, jinx303

          in the case of health care reform they negotiated the contours of the reform package with major industry groups -- the pharmaceutical lobby, doctors, medical suppliers, and insurers -- the first couple months in office.  

          They basically dealt away the public option two months into office -- even though they made a show in public of thinking that it was a "good idea" (in political speak saying something is a "good idea" is a nice way of saying, "I'm not going to push for that idea to become law").

          One-dimensional chess at work.

    •  One-dimeinsional chess . . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      "I'm going to cave! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Just kidding!!!!!!" isn't what this is.

      It's a trial balloon floated out to the left.

      Basically the political adviser wants to make a deal; he's afraid of defending an expiration of the middle class portion of the tax package so he's willing to make a deal on a provision of the deal that's not only unpopular, but policy.

      He needs to retire.  Fatigue is clearly clouding his judgment.

      •  We call them "white papers" - they are presented (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boofdah

        to the public to see how the plan will go over. (in Canada)

        This reaction here will be interesting since there is a large group misreading the white paper and condemning the messenger. It's difficult to assess whether they agree with the plan or not, they are too busy denying the truth of the plan.

        This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

        by Agathena on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:26:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The plan . . . (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Agathena, boofdah

          seems to be a temporary extension of the top bracket Bush income taxes -- a position that would represent a reversal from the previous administration stance (extension only of the middle-class tax cuts).

          It's pretty clear that most people object to the idea of extending the Bush tax cuts.  I suspect if you took a poll you might even find opposition to the extension of ANY of the original tax cuts.  Right now, under the existing law, all of the tax cuts will expire at the end of this year and the tax rates will revert back to Clinton era levels.

          A white paper usually encompasses more than just a negotiating strategy and they typically involve more complicated policy questions.  There's not really much to "get" here.  The only thing to understand is what the administration's position on this pretty narrowly defined issue is.  

    •  "Activate... 11-DIMENSIONAL CHESS!" (0+ / 0-)

      Pew! Pew! Pew!

      To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how much pressure they're under from the public. -- Noam Chomsky

      by just some lurker guy on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 10:31:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another Obamabot response diary. Yawn. (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, FishBiscuit
    Hidden by:
    GlowNZ

    Obama doesn't need any help looking bad, he does fine on his own.

    When has he ever stood up for anything?

    •  You'll get pounded for that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrblifil, california keefer

      for using that term.

      But this diarist and his/her blatantly dishonest diary is rewarded with many tips and a high place on the rec list.

      •  Its not this diary thats dishonest. (0+ / 0-)

        and using the term obamabot is a right winger term.  

        California turned Blue America turned Insane.

        by GlowNZ on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:44:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It absolutely is dishonest (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          california keefer

          and inaccurate.  Read the comments where the inaccuracies are explained and quotes are cited.  Neither the HuffPo article, the other diary, nor Axelrod ever said that Obama was going to agree to make all the Bush tax cuts permanent.  That's what this diarist claims.  He/she erects that strawman and knocks it down, and basically says that Sam Stein and Howard Feinman are liars.

          And the bot word is not a right-winger term.  It started on the left and most of the battles about that word are here on the left, in fact, right here on this web site.

          BTW, are you making these arguments and accusations about the tax cuts over on Jed's front page diary too and as vociferously as you are here?  If not, why not?

  •  it's just a matter of time anyway (0+ / 0-)

    And we all know it.

    Andrew Mellon & GOP: 'In a Depression, assets return to their rightful owners'

    by Tuffie on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:13:12 AM PST

  •  Arianna wants to be Relevent, so CONTROVERSY (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, artmartin

    is a business plan for hits.

    pretty simple

    •  Arianna didn't file the report. Also, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agathena, jinx303

      TPM now has the story.  Kicking the messenger isn't working too well for you, is it?  

      When will you concede?  When Obama gives a statement from the oval office that he has no backbone and is folding again?  That's not going to happen.  Simply choosing not to veto an across the board extension is the cave--his cronies are just signaling that outcome in advance.  All that's left to do is a fixed vote and the signing ceremony.  Yes We Can!  

      But he still has you, doesn't he?  I admire people who can believe in something despite overwhelming evidence that the belief is unfounded.  Believing that Obama is a principled leader, let alone a progressive, is much like believing in fairies.  Still, he has enough of you to reach 35% in his coming loss to Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney.

  •  Please delete (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Agathena, PhilJD

    The interview is properly sourced and the reporters known commodities. To whine about Huffington Post having an agenda is just embarrassing. Shooting the messenger is counter-productive. Axelrod and the President need to hear from the left before it's too late to reconsider their intended course of action. Again, I reiterate, in light of this diary's thesis having been extensively disproven and discredited, the better part of valor would be to delete the diary and live to fight another day.

  •  Only time will tell..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue earth, FishBiscuit

    and time is quickly running out. If these cuts pass as they were by Bush will we call them the Obama Tax Cuts for the Rich?

  •  Axelrod confirmed the story (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, hkorens, Vik in FL, PhilJD, southof

    so please continue your denial of reality in another vein. Fail diary.

    I am no longer a Democrat. Deal with it.

    by Jazzenterprises on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:22:46 AM PST

    •  Josh at TPM: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NotGeorgeWill, PhilJD

      But the strong implication here is that the White House takes Republicans at their word: they won't cave, so in order to avoid raising taxes on the middle class, we'll give in instead. The White House is strongly objecting to that reading. The problem is that's it's hard to read it any other way.

      This is what chump Change looks like.

      by Wamsutta on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:49:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  HP has become very disappointing with its (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1

    success. Looking for screaming headlines just like so many other sites.

    "Those who begin by burning books will end by burning people." Heinrich Heine

    by mayrose on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:41:06 AM PST

  •  I have folded (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, artmartin

    on EVER going to that website again.

    And I am not willing to compromise on t hat.

    California turned Blue America turned Insane.

    by GlowNZ on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:43:26 AM PST

  •  I've never been tempted to HR a Tip Jar... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whenwego, Agathena, NotGeorgeWill

    ...until now.

    In my naivete, I was confident that the diarist's blatant misrepresentation of the HuffPo story, according to which Sam Stein claimed Axelrod had told him the Bush cuts would be permanently extended, when in fact Stein explicitly stated the extension would be temporary, would be corrected in the time it took me to ride the el to work.

    Silly me. One can only conclude the diarist's misrepresentation is deliberate disinformation.

    This diary should be deleted.

    When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

    by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:43:49 AM PST

    •  I think you are underestimating . . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PhilJD

      the limits of stupidity.

      I agree that this diary is highly misleading, but I'm willing to give the diarist the benefit of the doubt that he/she is just exceedingly dumb and incapable of rendering an accurate summary of the HuffPost item.

  •  Heck no he didn't fold! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HootieMcBoob, blue earth
    He's just telling us that he's GOING to fold.

    The GOP must laugh their asses off at this weakling loser.

  •  Obama will fold, Huff Post or no (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cordobes, hkorens, PalmTree, jinx303

    When has the Obama administration held tough to an early position? This is just another issue that they'll
    "seek non-partisan consensus" on and, from the progressive point of view, roll over on.

    Huff Post may be a little hyperbolic and ahead of the game on this one, but, history suggests, will be right on this one.

    It's another bitter pill that progressives will have to swallow as we work to remake the Democratic party into something that represents the middle class.

  •  Reality based community? BWAhahahahaha (0+ / 0-)

    Those who believe yet another erroneous headline from the Huffington Post and reality based is like saying Dancing With The Stars is the height of dance.

    "The President will wait until the bipartisan fiscal commission finishes its work before commenting. He respects the challenging task that the Co-Chairs and the Commissioners are undertaking and wants to give them space to work on it. These ideas, however, are only a step in the process towards coming up with a set of recommendations and the President looks forward to reviewing their final product early next month," said White House spokesperson, Bill Burton.

    Now will that stop any "progressive" yet another word that has been poisoned from screaming the President is Bush, I doubt.  The fact Axelrod didn't say that in the first place won't help, actually I don't think anything will.  We are hosed.  You people are too in love with the MSM to reject any palp that comes from it.  All they have to do is tell you it's progressive and even if it makes friends with Grover Norquist, or lies on a consistent basis for clicks like Ariana Liar everytime they spit out a poisounous meme its gonna rec list here.  If you are white I suggest everyone take a look at that Kossacks work regarding leaving this country, as europe is currently going through a I hate non white people phase too we Black people here are just as fucked as we ever were.

    Change happens because of you...Barack Obama

    by Adept2u on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:50:23 AM PST

    •  Adept, did you actually read the HuffPo story? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DelRPCV, Wamsutta, NotGeorgeWill, jinx303

      It simply doesn't say what this diarist claims it says.

      I agree with much of the criticism of HuffPo, and in fact I seldom visit it anymore, but Sam Stein is a serious and well-connected reporter. He explicitly states that Axelrod told him the cuts would be extended temporarily, not permanently. as this diarist pretends.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:56:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you aware (5+ / 0-)

      that David Axelrod has not denied what was said in the interview, one that has now gone worldwide?

      Axelrod emails:

         There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

      This isn't about Arianna, HuffPost,  or scary white people.

      This is what chump Change looks like.

      by Wamsutta on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:00:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Huff Post often has misleading headlines. This IS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jinx303

    one of them.

    Of course, we all expect the WH to fold, because that is what he's been doing for 2 years.

    Gotta be bipartisan and come to an "agreement."

  •  Presto Change-o! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue earth, Spiffarino

    We have gone from:

    "We are the change we have been waiting for"

    to

    "We have to deal with the world as we find it"

    in only 2 years.

    One Term, Republican-Lite

    This is what chump Change looks like.

    by Wamsutta on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 07:54:03 AM PST

  •  The president is doing a fine job (7+ / 0-)

    making himself look bad on this issue and countless others by not standing up to Republicans and corporate Democrats and by not fighting for the American people.

    What matters is not whether HuffPo is right or wrong on this; what's important is the deafening silence from the administration in support of letting the tax cuts for the rich expire.

    He exhibited zero leadership on the issue prior to the election and continues to do so today.  It is shameless that Republicans have co opted the populist anger in this country, spinning it in favor of Wall Street, the rich and the powerful.

    I simply do not understand why so many supposed progressives and liberals continue to take shots at HufPo and the like, when the real target of your derision and anger should be President Obama and congressional Democrats who squandered control of the White House and congress.

    •  There's a good point here: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pino

      Whatever the White House's Official Position may turn out to be, there continues to be a remarkably consistent perception of a serious lack of leadership there; a confused, weak-willed, pusillanimous habit of mouthing glowing platitudes while failing to Act in the real world.

      We definitely saw this on display during the fight over the public option; that experience and others like it are why so many are so distrustful of the Obama administration and so ready to believe Axelrod's trial balloon.

      More than any one policy issue, it's the image of weakness, impotence, and cowardice that will sink this ship of state. It may have been totally unjustified, but it's what made Jimmy Carter a one-termer.

  •  This about decoupling (0+ / 0-)

    The administration's compromise is that they will accept a temporary extension of tax cuts for the wealthy if the Republicans will makes the middle class tax cuts permanent. That would mean that next time the Republicans would lose their cover and have to vote for cutting taxes on billionaires while taxes on everyone else stayed the same.

  •  If it came from Axelrod, watch out. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    prfb, blue earth

    The source was Axelrod, whatever HuffPo's agenda. If he denies it, shame on them. If he actually said it, then we have every reason to be pissed off.

    If the WH is floating this as a trial balloon then we need to pop that sonofabitch pretty damn quick. Complain about the source all you want, but I'm not playing that nothing-to-see-here game. If there's anything close to capitulation coming from the administration on this issue that the GOP gift-wrapped for us, then they need to feel severe heat.

    •  He's already denied it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA

      This is not a book (Atlas Shrugged) to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown, with great force. - Dorothy Parker

      by edwardssl on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:06:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually he confirmed it in a sly way (0+ / 0-)

        "Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy."

        Translation: We've folded and will allow a "temporary" extension of the tax cuts for the rich.

        All temporary legislation is temporary unless it is extended. It looks like this will be extended.

  •  You lie! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue earth, PhilJD

    Not a good sign when in the first two sentences you completely misrepresent the content of what you are attacking.

    According to a recommended diary, President Obama "folded" on tax cuts.  He is apparently going to allow tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to be permanently extended.

    Nope.  That diary reports that Obama is ready to cave on a temporary two-year extension of all tax cuts.  And anyone who thinks that is inaccurate hasn't been paying attention to current events.

    •  Fascinating that, so far as I've seen at least, (0+ / 0-)

      none of the folks trashing the HuffPo story have even tried to explain or defend this blatant misrepresentation of Stein's article.

      Not that it can be defended, but the refusal to even address it is pretty fucking telling.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 09:08:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  if obama stands up for social security, i will (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    southof, Ginger1

    cheer him. and if he doesn't, some of his supporters, who now are mad at huffington post, will still cheer him. it doesn't really matter what happens. they have their hero. his feet aren't of clay, they are just pre fired fine china.

    obama already yielded to the wrong side at the very beginning, apointing simpson and bowles as cochairs.

    obama is a menace, but his harm is greatly increased by his enablers who are Democrats. obama is lieberman, with charm.

    Politics is not arithmetic. It's chemistry.

    by tamandua on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:07:29 AM PST

  •  Reminds me of the public option n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    prfb, blue earth
  •  i don't need a source to know Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    prfb, blue earth

    ...will fold. even with the vast majority of Americans on his side, he'll fold in the face of Republican bullying like he always does, a terrible and disastrous policy will continue and he will further alienate his base and the American public from his presidency.

    sorry, but it's true.

    "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." -Mark Twain

    by humanistique on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:15:18 AM PST

  •  What's worse? HuffPo or so many who pile on ? n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  The OP will look (5+ / 0-)

    foolish when the story is made "official" or reported in the MSM which the OP looks to for his "facts."  That's his first mistake.

    Obama is the weakest president that I can remember, even weaker than Jimmy Carter was perceived to have been.  Weak presidents don't get re-elected.  Ask Jimmy Carter.

    All of this is so predictable.  Obama folds without a fight.  What else is new.  Does he only fight when he's assured of a win?  Kind of like the terrorism show trials.  They can proceed in Federal Court only if the  Obama admin. is sure they can win.  Otherwise, the show trial takes place in front of a military commission.  No different than G. Bush.

  •  Did the HP say anything about making (0+ / 0-)
    the cuts permanent?  I thought it said he agreed to extend the cuts on the rich, there wasn't talk of permanenxce.

    When the rose lies withered by the roadside don't try to negotiate the bloom.

    by Atilla the Honey Bunny on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 08:28:10 AM PST

  •  Get your facts straight before you write a diary (7+ / 0-)

    Bloomberg, for one, published the story

    An article by Ryan J. Donmoyer, rdonmoyer@bloomberg.net, in Bloomberg gives lie to your assertion that:

    1.  Every other newspaper, news network or internet news source chooses to ignore it...

    Obama apologists are so blinded by their obsequious fidelity to Obama, they wouldn't recognize the unflattering truths about Obama if it hit them in the face.

  •  Let them all expire (3+ / 0-)

    While HuffPo is pretty sensationalist, Axelrod was directly quoted, and his denial didn't actually refute what was said. It's true they're not embracing permanent tax breaks, but it did imply they would concede that the different rates won't be de-coupled.

    Clearly, they're worried they'll take a bigger political hit by letting all the cuts expire. Frankly, I say, let them. We really can't afford even the middle-class tax cuts, and a temporary extension just pushed the can down the road, where we'll have to again have this same conversation right before a presidential election.

    They should just call the GOP's bluff, let them all expire, and if they do, great. Combined with ACA, repealing the Bush tax cuts basically eliminates the long-term deficit.

  •  Obama can make a statement, if he wants to, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue earth

    and tell us what he does think.  He can dump Axelrod, if Axelrod mis-spoke on such an important issue.  If neither of these happen, than it is just another fold-by-proxy-before-you-even-look-at your-cards situation.

    It is time for Obama to say for himself what he thinks.  Obama acts as though the bully pulpit is something to hide behind.

  •  Forget 11-dimensional chess--this one goes to 12! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue earth, just some lurker guy

    Spinal Tap would be proud.

  •  This diary is poorly written. Huffington Post (4+ / 0-)

    often does print crap, but I think they are closer to the truth here than anyone else has been. Huff Post is leading the story no one else wants to touch.

    Let's see a vote this session of Congress, even if there is no extension in this, or the next session. Let's see how they vote.

  •  Story confirmed by Politico (5+ / 0-)

    Politico is quoting the HuffPo story, but has also confirmed it with a second White House source:

    A White House spokeswoman also didn't attempt to walk back the comments Thursday morning, arguing that Axelrod was echoing what the president already stated in his weekly address Saturday.

    "The president has been clear that extending tax cuts for middle-class families is his top priority, and he is open to compromise to get that done," White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki wrote in an e-mail. "He has also expressed concern about the cost of making the highest income tax cuts permanent and is looking forward to discussing this and other issues with bipartisan congressional leaders next week."

    The White House strategy was to try to make the under $250k tax cuts permanent, and an extension of the over $250k tax cuts temporary.  However, it looks like they may fold and make them all temporary.  That would be a real defeat; we would never have the winning issue of Republicans voting solely on tax cuts for the rich.  Instead, the issue is framed entirely on Republican terms.  

  •  It's Axelrod's quote (7+ / 0-)

    Seems pretty clear.

    White House senior adviser David Axelrod on Thursday indicated the administration might be willing to accept a short-term extension on tax cuts for all income brackets if it were the best option for maintaining cuts for the middle class.

    "We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod told the Huffington Post. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

    http://thehill.com/...

    •  I see the problem (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RenMin

      Even if there is a direct quote, the fan club won't believe it if it doesn't match the fantasy living rent free in their heads.  

      "I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you find out who's hitting you?" Harry Truman - 1948

      by ThAnswr on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:11:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The democrats still have control of house til Jan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rmwarnick, RenMin, Betty Pinson

    If they don't have the guts pass a permanent middle class tax cut now, when the hell will they?

    Once they pass a middle class tax cut, they can just sit back and let the bush tax cuts expire.

    If the dems can't pass a freaking middle class tax cut with control of the house, senate, white house and without an election looming over their heads, they are worthless as a party.

    •  Add the NYT confirming the HP article (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whenwego, rmwarnick, RenMin

      No man is an island, except the lone-holdout, this diarist

      White House officials were meeting on Thursday morning with allies from several progressive organizations to discuss strategy for the battle over whether to extend the Bush-era income tax rates, and the session took on added interest after reports circulated that the administration might cave in to Republican demands on the issue.

      David Axelrod, the senior White House adviser, caused a flurry Thursday morning after a web site wrote that he was ready to accept an extension of the lower tax rates on all income, and not just on the first $250,000 of income a year for most families, as President Obama has proposed.

      •  They are repeating what the Huff Po said. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RenMin

        I don't know if that is "confirmation".

        Look there are two stories in this diary.  One is whether Obama will cave on tax cuts (duh, of course he will.  The time to have gotten it done was BEFORE the election); the other is whether Huff Po is a good source (no, it's not).

        •  "The time to have gotten it done was BEFORE the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RenMin

          election."

          Couldn't agree more. Although in the lame-duck session, the Democrats still have the overwhelming majorities that they had before the elections.

          Obama and the Democrats squandered this majority.

  •  I just want to comment on Huff Po (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    artmartin

    They tend to always sex up their stories.  I have gotten burned by them so many times, I just don't read them anymore.  They screwed over Kerry back during the health care debate, saying he was for killing the public option and instead giving Sen. Snowe what she wanted.  It ends up he was merely asking her questions for what she would support.  Some source (I think a Schumer staffer) fed the bogus story to the Huff Po, and everyone here believed it.  I just think Huff Po is like Drudge or Fox News.  Not. a. credible. source.

  •  Even Axlerod's walkback indicates (8+ / 0-)
    That they are going to be extending them, at least temporarily; how does this not just reek of spineless compromise:

    The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence.

    Also, this bit from the OP is just sad:

    I don't think I am revealing anything shocking when I say that Huffington Post has an agenda, to promote "progressivism" as they see it by making our President look BAD.

    You're making this sound like it's high school again. How about you be objective and not worry about who's being mean to your president.

  •  He hasn't yet, but he will and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rmwarnick, bluicebank, RenMin

    when he does, will you apologize diarist for aiming your venom at the messenger instead of the person in charge of the message?

  •  more bullshit coming down the tube.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ThAnswr

    from a WaPo article on who is paying some staff on the catfood commission:

    For example, the salaries of two senior staffers, Marc Goldwein and Ed Lorenzen, are paid by private groups that have previously advocated cuts to entitlement programs. Lorenzen is paid by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, while Goldwein is paid by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, which is also partly funded by the Peterson group.

    Peterson! Holy shit am I getting pissed off.

  •  the tax cuts were all ready temporary, extending (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenMin, Celtic Pugilist

    is folding. It is recreating what the GOP did. Not extending the tax cuts for income over 250,000 would not be folding.

  •  I really like Huffpo but they are getting really (0+ / 0-)

    deceptive with their Story "Headlines",heck even some of the Commenter's on stories point this out and complain.

  •  Well well well, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rmwarnick, RenMin, Willa Rogers

    It looks like one of this diary's premises has been blown out of the water. The story has made it's way out into the press, with TPM, Politico , ABC News , The Washington Post , MSNBC among others are all reporting on Obama's coming capitulation to the GOP. The only real question is not if Obama will fold, but whether he will fold on making the tax cuts for top earners permanent or if he will fold on a "temporary" 2-3 year extension of those cuts. Let me be clear about temporary cuts: If he folds on a temporary extension he might as well be making the cuts permanent, because the next GOP administration will make those Bush tax cuts permanent, and every indication at this point signals that Obama will not be enjoying a second term in office.

  •  seems like some folks around here have (0+ / 0-)
    learned NOTHING from the last election cycle.  they just continue to scream "the SKY is FALLING!" and repeat every negative thing they see or read, regardless the source.

    and another VERY big gripe i have right now is the constant use of the republican talking point because it is "cute" or "clever" (think "catfood commission").

    if this is any indication of what is to come, hell, the republicans won't HAVE to raise all that money from the chamber - we'll do their negative campaigning for the free of charge!

    we are a nation of idiots, i fear - and they aren't all on the "other" side of the political spectrum!

    MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

    by edrie on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 10:57:43 AM PST

  •  More than a touch of Fox News of the Left... (0+ / 0-)

    HF spews a lot of bullshit.  There are some gems mixed in.  But this particular kind of story is pure bullshit.

  •  Her sanity rally conversion didn't last long (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sharonsz

    Next she's be going to use that "spineless" word. She sent several busloads of people to Washington to hear that it's just not that cool.  She should've listened istead of mugging like she was some sort of hero of the day.  

  •  The writing is on the wall... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenMin

    ...they will cave, as usual.

    It's simple logic... R's will NOT allow extending middle-class cuts without the rich cuts.  So, that means they will expire unless the Dems cave.  And, since Axelrod said that they can't let them expire on the middle class, it means they intend to cave.

    The math:

    R's-won't-extend-cuts-without-rich + D's-won't-let-middle-class-cuts-expire = D's will fold!

    Sad, but that's how it's going to play out.

    "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

    -7.38, -6.97

    by cotasm on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 11:20:48 AM PST

  •  Thank you whamfan for your diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    Thank you whamfan for your diary telling the TRUTH!

    We need voices like yours speaking out!

  •  HuffPo (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shwing

    I actually left the hp several months ago because I couldn't even Ask a question in response to some ridiculous assertion by a right-winger.  Deleted over and over, complained and received no explanation.
    This post "over there" would have been deleted...(maybe here too?)
    I think the progressive side of the HP is long gone and has been replaced with "unreasonable "RW" thinking censorship".

    I think they (we all) should wait for Obama to tell us what he's going to do.

  •  Hey (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rmwarnick

    I found this over at TPM.  Fascinating stuff.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/...

  •  Howard Fineman is trash. He damn near washed (0+ / 0-)

    up, and now he is trying to relevant.  He landed at the right place, a trash rag better known as the huffington post.

    Hell no we can't let the repugs win!!!

    by jtown on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 01:31:05 PM PST

  •  Before you believe the denial... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenMin, greenbastard

    Before you believe the denial that President Obama is going to cut taxes for the richest 2 percent of Americans, read and remember:

    An administration official said tonight that Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius "misspoke" when she told CNN this morning that a government run health insurance option "is not an essential part" of reform. This official asked not to be identified in exchange for providing clarity about the intentions of the President. The official said that the White House did not intend to change its messaging...

  •  Obama didn't fold (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenMin

    Yet!!! Give him time. The Republicans will say "Boo" and Obama will jump.

  •  Obama Folded. Before the election he was against (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whenwego, ebgill, bluicebank, RenMin

    cutting taxes for income over 250,000. Now they are talking about temporary extensions of them all. That is a change.

    Read it for your self:

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...

    "Before the midterm elections, the administration had consistently said it opposed even a temporary extension for family income above $250,000 a year, arguing that it would cost too much revenue and would not significantly boost job creation. The White House put the cost of a permanent extension at $700 billion more over 10 years that Mr. Obama’s preferred approach."

    You people are deluding yourselves

    •  Amen. (0+ / 0-)

      I can't conceive the mindset that thinks everything Obama does is good.

      This is just like the public option.  Reports very early on were that he agreed to abandon the public option to buy off the insurance companies.

      The White House vociferously denied it and lots of people on this site, perhaps even many of those commenting above, fell for that denial.  They called anyone criticizing Obama for not defending the public option a deluded traitor.

      Of course, it turns out the Obama defenders were the ones who were deluded. Daschle even admitted, in a rare moment of candor, that Obama cut that deal early on.  (Of course, he tried to walk it back when he realized he was making a liar out of Obama, but I find his "explanation" very unconvincing.)

      Same thing here.  Obama keeps moving the goalposts further and further to the right, towards the Republicans.  (Why WOULD they bother to negotiate when Obama continually negotiates against himself?)  First his "firm" position was no extension of the upper income cuts and a permanent extension of the middle class cuts.  Then it was a temporary extension of the upper income cuts but a permanent extension of the lower income cuts.  Now it's a temporary extension of both.  (Which guarantees another extension of cuts for the wealthy when the two year period runs out again, right before the next election.)  And don't be surprised -- I'm warning you now -- there's at least a 50-50 chance Obama will end up agreeing to permanent cuts for the rich.  Just give it a few weeks.  And he'll claim it's a great victory, because he saved the middle class tax cuts.  Which, of course, he could have done anyway, if he insisted on a vote before the election.  

      "[W]e shall see the reign of witches pass over . . . and the people, recovering their true spirit, restore their government to its true principles." Jefferson

      by RenMin on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:19:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Deja vu all over again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenMin

    This will be just like the public option fiasco.  

    Bottom line:  Obama can't get fast enough to capitulation, pardon me, bipartisanship.  

    "I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you find out who's hitting you?" Harry Truman - 1948

    by ThAnswr on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:08:35 PM PST

  •  Any gamblers here? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ebgill, RenMin

    I'd bet good money HuffPo is dead on and the fan club is dead wrong ........... again.  

    Give it a week.  Obama will cave.  

    "I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you find out who's hitting you?" Harry Truman - 1948

    by ThAnswr on Thu Nov 11, 2010 at 02:21:01 PM PST

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